S08:E24 - Father Knows Beast

[ManaMinori 4,145]

How does one explain this? 

The episode "Father Knows Beast"...very early on,  Twilight admits to lacking the "dragonish" kowledge that she needs to give Spike answers. Um, excuse me, but wasn't Twilight actively engaging in letters with Ember up until season 7? 

 

Father Knows Beast

 

Twilight Sparkle: I can't believe I overlooked something as simple as feathers. It's no wonder you were having trouble. I wish I had more "dragonish" knowledge to give you. Do you think being raised by ponies has affected you in other ways? Spike?

 

Triple Threat

 

Twilight Sparkle: According to Ember's letters, the dragons are trying to be friends, but competing is in their nature, and it's leading to more and more fights.

 

Gauntlet of Fire

 

Twilight Sparkle: Plus, Ember said I could write to her anytime I had questions about dragon culture! With this much information, I'll be able to write a whole book on dragons!

[Thrond 3,263]

On 9/2/2018 at 6:10 AM, Theanimationfanatic said:

What was your guys' take on Spike making amends with Twilight? Was it satisfying? too short? etc.

I think it was sufficient, but I don't think it really provided much resolution to the main problem here. Twilight is still not enough for Spike, and he still doesn't have a parental figure or role model. I think the answer would involve Smolder in some way... if she said something in the final scene, I think it would have helped answer the former question. If Spike will never know about his parents, at least he has Twilight for emotional support and Smolder to help him understand his body and his heritage. As optimistic as this show always is, I think there's something poignant and realistic in the bittersweet ending. Sometimes we don't get all the answers, so we have to make our own. 

I praised the season 7 parent episodes for being charming, but this season is getting something much more profound out of their absence. God, this season has been weird. 

10 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

How does one explain this? 

The episode "Father Knows Beast"...very early on,  Twilight admits to lacking the "dragonish" kowledge that she needs to give Spike answers. Um, excuse me, but wasn't Twilight actively engaging in letters with Ember up until season 7? 

 

Father Knows Beast

 

Twilight Sparkle: I can't believe I overlooked something as simple as feathers. It's no wonder you were having trouble. I wish I had more "dragonish" knowledge to give you. Do you think being raised by ponies has affected you in other ways? Spike?

  

Triple Threat

 

Twilight Sparkle: According to Ember's letters, the dragons are trying to be friends, but competing is in their nature, and it's leading to more and more fights.

  

Gauntlet of Fire

 

Twilight Sparkle: Plus, Ember said I could write to her anytime I had questions about dragon culture! With this much information, I'll be able to write a whole book on dragons!

She can write all the letters she wants. She still needs to know what questions to ask, and she still needs to wait for Ember to write back, and she's still relying on someone else's expertise. Even with all the resources available to her, she will never be able to help Spike in the way an actual dragon could. 

[Justin_Case001 4,888]

Oh, thank Celestia.  I've never been so relieved.    Thank friggin' Celestia that that moron wasn't Spike's dad.  I had a feeling, even before watching the episode.  The description says "...a dragon 'claiming' to be Spike's father..."  Why use the word "claiming" if it wasn't meant to cast doubt?  Sludge became extremely suspicious when he specifically asked the ponies if they had heard of that....whatever place he mentioned....before telling them the story of Spike's egg.  And of course, the clencher was the maniacal grin at the end of the song.  I would have been so f*cking pissed if that sack of garbage was the real deal.

That said, it was a fairly mediocre episode with an award for worst song in the series.  But...y'know....I figure the song wasn't really supposed to be good....y'know....since Sludge was a piece a crap....so it's kinda fitting....y'know?  Anyway, the great thing about the episode was the further development of Smolder and Spike's relationship.  I've said before that it's so wonderful that Spike has a dragon friend to help him out now, and this episode developed that much more.  And I have to say, for a friendship novice who is not at all suited or accustomed to this kind of friend and mentor role, Smolder is doing a heck of good job.

I'm just a little bummed that they seemed to kinda close the door to Spike finding his real parents.  Twilight made that comment, and Spike was like, "Nah, I know who my family is."  And that's great and all, but I still want to see his parents and get the backstory.  I take it that the writers wanted to address the issue but leave it they way it is, with Spike never knowing his parents so he will remain a relatable character for kids who don't know their parents.  And that's fine.  I get that.  It's a great message for kids that families come in all forms, and that you don't have to have the traditional family with your biological parents in order to have bonds that are just and strong and meaningful.  But....well....y'know....I just really want the Spike story!  Meeting his parents has been one of my top wishlist items from day 1.  I want an epic two-parter that takes place in the dragonlands where he finds his parents and they have to defeat some villain, and I want his parents to be really cool and majestic.  Like, I want his dad to be Smaug....but, y'know, not evil.  I just meant in terms of appearance.  PAARTHURNAX!  There ya go.  I want his dad to be f*ckin' Paarthurnax.  Anyway, I guess we're not gonna get it.  Oh well.  I'd rather that they leave it be than screw it up.

The x-ray heartbreak was a little strange.  It just feel off to me.  I dunno why.  And was it really necessary?  We could tell she was really hurt.

Spoiler

 

 

[ImpctR 155]

On 9/2/2018 at 6:28 AM, Trix or Treat? said:

Mortal kombat-like x ray

I lol-ed and yea I dont know what that was for in the episode. I guess Xray damage to Twi.

 

Oh and I don't hate Dragon's Quest, I liked it. It was 10 times better. I don't care about 'racism against dragons' because I hate comparing this world logic with the one in fantasy. Should I cry about World of Warcraft racism between nations too? It is also how two worlds whose knowledge of one another is poor and one only knows 'stereotypes about the other one' why there was "dragon racism".

Edited October 11, 2018 by ImpctR

[Cash In 22,305]

Did not like this episode at all. Right down there with Non-Compete Clause.

[Truffles 2,033]

On 10/8/2018 at 9:11 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Didn't Spike have any of his own goals or aspirations other than being just like a "real dragon"? Even if Sludge were showing Spike what it's like to be a "real dragon", shouldn't Spike want to do more than that? Doesn't Spike have his own values and his own idea of who he is that he holds strongly enough to stand up for, rather than (in a matter of a couple of days or so) seemingly throwing all of that away in order to do whatever Sludge wants and to aspire to be like him?

Part of the problem is the lack of focus on Spike being an orphan through the run of the series. Thanks to "Dragon Quest," the audience could connect the dots and assume that as an orphan, he's been wondering who his parents are, what they were like, and whether he was behaving anything like them. But there has been no intervening stories between then and now that shed any light on that aspect of his character. It never comes up in his supporting character roles, and while a number of his focus episodes have successfully shone a light on other aspects of his character, none of these other than "DQ" told us what his aspirations were -- aside, of course, from being Twilight's assistant and dreaming of Rarity as his special somepony.

On 10/8/2018 at 9:11 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

But if they believe that, shouldn't they be taking him to a hospital? Ponyville does have a hospital, after all, and I would think that it would have more equipment and expertise in handling potentially serious injuries than the Mane Seven would have at Twilight's castle.

I guess I didn't mind this because of what happened back in "Secret of my Excess." Twilight tried taking Spike to a doctor (the same doctor from "A Health of Information," in fact) but he plainly stated "[he didn't] know anything about dragons" and then suggested she instead take him to a vet (the same vet from yet another Fluttershy episode, "Fluttershy Leans In") and that didn't work out, either. So there is some plausibility for the Mane 6 to skip that and try and mend him themselves.

However, with the school being open it is difficult to believe there's still no doctor on staff in Ponyville that doesn't understand the anatomy of other creatures since any injury among the Student 6 besides Sandbar or Yona would be dire if there was no one nearby to treat them. I suppose another possibility, though, is even if the medics in Ponyville can treat other creatures, it may be that Sludge being an adult dragon instead of a child would make any run-of-the-mill pony hesitant to treat him. So there's still some room there for what they did to make sense.

On 10/8/2018 at 9:11 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

But what would have happened if, say, Twilight stood firm and said that if Sludge won't follow her minimum baseline rules, then he's kicked out of the castle? Spike may well have followed Sludge wherever he went at that point, and Twilight could lose Spike indefinitely. But what would Sludge have done, knowing that his goal was to find a way to live a cushy lifestyle at others' expense? Would he have continued to manipulate Spike and tried to use Spike's other connections in order to freeload off of Spike's other friends/family?

My guess is if faced with the threat of being kicked out, he'd acquiesce to Twilight's demands but use that to drive a wedge between her and Spike so she'd eventually relent. He could even fake another injury to reset things to how they were when he first arrived though such a strategy would likely result in diminishing returns after repeated attempts at fooling them.

Twilight's problem is she really thought he was Spike's dad, and wanted to treat him like family. The audience, however, knows he's not so there's a disconnect between Twilight's POV and ours, and maybe that's part of the frustration the audience has with the episode?

On 10/8/2018 at 9:11 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

This scene parallels Twilight's practicing in "Princess Twilight Sparkle", but in that case, she was (at least in part) practicing a routine for the Summer Sun Celebration. So are there plans for Spike to do some public flying performance at some point in the future?

I'd like to think he was invited by Rainbow Dash to fly with her as part of a Wonderbolts show, perhaps in the Crystal Empire? Having him there in at least one stunt might bring in a larger crowd than usual.

On 10/8/2018 at 9:11 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

But to what extent was Twilight's flying advice only applicable to feathered wings? The only particular flying advice we hear Twilight give in the episode - "Remember, two flaps, then straight up" to do a flip - doesn't seem to be obviously specific to feathered wings. Spike also mentions after Smolder's lessons that he just needed to bend his wings, but does Twilight not bend her wings?

Since both dragons and pegasi are fictional creatures, it's hard to say how feathered vs. non-feathered wings would behave on their respective species. Perhaps the feathers provide more surface area and thus pegasi/alicorns don't need to flap so much? There's probably some correlating info that might shed light on this in regards to how bat vs. bird wings work, but I'm too busy to do the research for a single throwaway line in an episode. XD

On 10/8/2018 at 9:11 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Smolder says to Spike's throw pillow gift that "It's just dragons don't really use pillows. At all". But that doesn't mean that all dragons don't want to use pillows, or that they couldn't start to.

I suppose it's possible her parents never told her the real reason dragons don't use pillows is because they don't have any, and so she was just speaking from her experiences of how she normally sleeps. Of course, she states she sleeps in the school now and not outside, so it would be interesting to know if she sleeps on a bed without pillows or if she even sleeps on a bed at all and prefers to sleep on the floor? it's further complicated by the fact that she has to hide her love of "cute stuff." Perhaps the idea of sleeping with frilly pillows would expose her secret, and so she avoids them to portray this false rough exterior?

I suppose it didn't really matter if she was lying or not - the purpose of her stating those ideas was to expose Sludge at the con artist he is, and it worked.

I still have minor issues with the ending though - the scenes between Sludge and Smolder seemed rushed. And the episode doesn't follow the rule of, "Show, don't tell" in those scenes since the audience is simply expected to take everything that Smolder is saying about dragon families at face value. Having a brief flashback of her with her parents earlier in the episode would lend a lot more credibility to her statements, especially considering her cruel HWE story and her kicking her brother out once he started molting.

On 10/8/2018 at 9:11 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Do dragons enjoy eating raw eggs?

Maybe? XD Though with raw eggs the whites are pretty much clear. Those whites were translucent, so maybe Sludge just likes fried eggs that are barely fried? I know I like my scrambled eggs to be a bit more watery than is probably good for me.

 

On 10/9/2018 at 1:26 AM, Justin_Case001 said:

Like, I want his dad to be Smaug....but, y'know, not evil.  I just meant in terms of appearance.  PAARTHURNAX!  There ya go.  I want his dad to be f*ckin' Paarthurnax.

I want his dad to be Burnferno from his favorite storybook, but I'll have to wait till next season to see if all that hinting in this episode and "A Flurry of Emotions" is just a red herring or not. XD

[qwerE 96]

Looks like there's a divide on people's reactions about this one. As for me, I found it quite enjoyable.

I see that many Spike fans were disappointed in his actions, such as saying hurtful things to Twilight. In hindsight, I do think he went a bit too far, but it didn't realy bother me when I was viewing the episode. I think it's because the story gave off the feeling that something like that would happen, making his words less shocking to hear. I wasn't too sad about Sludge turning out to be a fake either, probably because this was something expected as well. Sure, I was dissapointed and a bit sad, but it didn't make me emotionally feel down or anything.

Sludge was a terrible dragon, but he wasn't too annoying. As some people point out, his character being like that of a obvious villain definitely helped. I would have felt so much more betrayed if he actually acted like a father, while taking advantage of Spike in the back.

I liked this episode for its adorable moments. Smolder is one of my favourite characters, so I loved seeing her play a major role in helping Spike. The Spike-Twi moment in the end was also super cute and heartwarming. I just can't get enough of scenes like these...

Edited January 1, 2019 by qwerE

[FlareGun45 2,221]

Alright hold on there's an issue here. So people are pissed because Spike broke Twilight's heart, but no one minded Twilight using Spike as live-bait in Best Gift Ever?

[Will Guide 21,360]

On 1/1/2019 at 9:57 AM, FlareGun45 said:

Alright hold on there's an issue here. So people are pissed because Spike broke Twilight's heart, but no one minded Twilight using Spike as live-bait in Best Gift Ever?

Don't forget that Spike was cover in sparking glitter, which attracted the Winterzilla and it was in the heat of the moment. No time to stop and think a plan through in the latter special. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Will Guide

[FlareGun45 2,221]

1 hour ago, Will Guide said:

Don't forget that Spike was cover in sparking glitter, which attracted the Winterzilla and it was in the heat of the moment. No time to stop and think a plan through in the latter special. 

FRIENDSHIP IS MAGIC! YAY!

[Senko 459]

Plus Spike can bathe in lava without trouble so its quite possible Twilight knew the winterzilla couldn't hurt him even if it caught him but his words broke her heart. She raised him, was there for his first word, probably taught him most of what he know's, watched him grow up as her responsibility then got told she wasn't his mother.

Edited April 3, 2019 by Senko

[Allen 1,387]

Would you look at this? Spike have a father, I can't believe this! 

[Rushing cash 836]

The episode had its problems, but overall I thought it was pretty good. I liked how much twilight cared for spike and his friendship with smolder. I liked the song, it was nothing incredible but it was enjoyable and catchy(I kinda wish that starlight kicked his ass after sludge threw her while she bathed). Spike was fooled a bit to easily, I mean it was very clear sludge was using him for his advantage, I feel like spike should've been more cautious here. 7\10, this episode turned out better than I expected after reading the synopsis.

[SpittyPie2005 3,952]

Out of all the MLP episodes, Father Knows Beast makes me cry the hardest. Can I start out by saying Spike has been realatable since day 1? Like Spike, I don't know my actual parents are, and he was adopted as a baby. And he wants to find his parents...just like me. And that part were Spike said to Twilight about him having a real parent, WRECKS ME, because I've had several moments like that in the past towards my [adoptive] mom.

Edited December 19, 2019 by SpittyPie2005

[Moony the Cat 3,702]

I liked Smolder in this one, but otherwise...meh. Also..is it just me or didnt we already had a similar premise in a My Little Pony n Friends episode? It has been to long, but i think i have seen a similar episode in Generation 1. Maybe.

The Episode was okay, but didnt really hit me to much.

[JMTV99 1,353]

What I find disappointing about this episode is that they had a lot of potential to finally have Spike a backstory about his parents, but it was completely wasted by unnecessary character moments like Sludge.

What a ripoff! TBH, they should've done Spike's backstory a LONG time ago.

Edited June 26, 2021 by JMTV99

[Will Guide 21,360]

5 hours ago, JMTV99 said:

What I find disappointing about this episode is that they had a lot of potential to finally have Spike a backstory about his parents, but it was completely wasted by unnecessary character moments like Sludge.

What a ripoff! TBH, they should've done Spike's backstory a LONG time ago.

To be honest back in season 5 finale which involved time traveling I was a little disappointed they didn't even give a hint as to spikes origins or at least where his egg came from. So back then after that episode originally aired, I made up my own little Side Story that happened alongside Twilight and Spike stoping Starlight. Basically this little Side Story involves spikes real dragon parents doomed to die but a time traveling Pony (it could be literally anyone even an OC character) realizing Spike's destiny managed to get in contact with the parents who gave them the egg who then passes it along to Celestia. 

Basically, I had Spikes parents be shown as kind dragons, is willing to do whatever it takes to give Spike a chance at life even as they would never get to know their son. So when this episode was on the way I was worried that it might ruin what I had in mind but I'm actually glad it didn't and that that Sludge character turned out to be a big phony

[JMTV99 1,353]

2 hours ago, Will Guide said:

To be honest back in season 5 finale which involved time traveling I was a little disappointed they didn't even give a hint as to spikes origins or at least where his egg came from. So back then after that episode originally aired, I made up my own little Side Story that happened alongside Twilight and Spike stoping Starlight. Basically this little Side Story involves spikes real dragon parents doomed to die but a time traveling Pony (it could be literally anyone even an OC character) realizing Spike's destiny managed to get in contact with the parents who gave them the egg who then passes it along to Celestia. 

Basically, I had Spikes parents be shown as kind dragons, is willing to do whatever it takes to give Spike a chance at life even as they would never get to know their son. So when this episode was on the way I was worried that it might ruin what I had in mind but I'm actually glad it didn't and that that Sludge character turned out to be a big phony

That's nice to hear and you make a very good point. I agree with you that it doesn't matter if the show doesn't give us we wanted, we can make our own stories, our own characters, our own adventures with these Canon characters and go forward from there. That's one of the best things about the show. It helps inspire people to create through many forms of media.

I understand on what you are coming from.

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,824]

Looking back at this episode, I can safely say that there was indeed a hidden lesson about the dangers of gullibility and naivete. This was a very realistic example of how someone could come into another's life and fake being there for them, and instead just want their material things...it's like those people who proclaim to be guardians but instead, sneak behind and steal. Sludge used Spike as an excuse just to get the benefits of the castle life. It took the eye of a close friend to reveal the truth. 

[DJShy 873]

Oh, this episode.

Oh, this episode.

 

Let me tell you something about this episode. The story involved has a random lazy bum dragon pretending to be Spike's dad to get stuff and take advantage of him. I have a very neutral opinion of Spike (never really felt much towards or against him), so I can't say much about how I like or dislike this episode on the idea that he hurt Spike alone.

 

But me, let me tell you a few somethings about me: For starters, I can't stand misunderstandings. Whether they be anything from mind swaps to any kind of miscommunication error, they make we either wanna rip off my skin in discomfort or pause whatever I'm reading/watching etc and escape into my head/music until I calm down.

 

Now, I can't even begin to tell you why (because not even I fully understand it), but this episode? This episode was truly godawful in that regard. I used to watch these episodes as they air every Saturday with the rest of y'all over on that one live-streaming site we used to watch together on that I can't remember the name of anymore (or find on the site, assuming it's still around). And then this episode aired. It messed with me so hard, I had to take a break, I told myself I'd watch it later that day. Then the discomfort came back when I tried to resume, so I put it off for tomorrow, then 'tomorrow' became 'the next day', then 'next week'.

 

It took me until yesterday to finally sit down and finish this monstrosity of internal torment. And all the while, the show continued, the fandom continued. And because I am who I am about spoilers, I had no choice (from a certain perspective) but to go dead silent and blind until I finished it and played catch-up.

 

All because of my issues (which I'm still working on). All because of this. episode.

 

I still have not caught-up with the show, but I finally finished this... thing that held me back for literal years. And I hope to finish the show and reconnect with all y'all before the fanbase goes from 'died down' to 'died'.

 

1 out of 10 stars, I usually watch reactions right after each episode, I refuse to do that with this one. The faster I can leave it behind me, the better.

Edited March 30, 2023 by DJShy

[Steve Piranha 29,424]

First time I kill Sludge in over a decade 

 

I’ll kill him again, TWICE, in about an hour 

[Steve Piranha 29,424]

Al right sludge, you’re ded, DEEEEEEEEEEEED 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

[The Nth Doctor 662]

Skipped this episode back in the day and having finally watched it for the first time recently...

hoo boy

How did this get past any sort of draft

Who looked at traumatizing a child that wants to know where he came from with a scumbag slimeball piece of cow dung and said "yep that's a good episode I want to have my name attached to"

 

Man, sure is weird that this season only has 25 episodes
Do we have any idea why it goes from episode 23 to 25?