Theorycrafting G5's "The Last Jedi" Problem: How will FiM characters be depicted?

[Jeric 46,851]

So we know that the state of Equestria is in a bad way socially speaking with distrust and apathy running rampant. We also know that you have a core group of at least four characters who will likely be motivated to change the current status quo. What I’m wondering is this — will be see any FiM era characters in G5 and how will they be represented? 

 

Now I don’t want this topic to be just “I want to see Twilight, Thorax, Ember, Spike, Discord”. This is really a speculative topic that assumes we may actually see one of these characters at some point on the show. The ones I mentioned above may be long lived or even immortal. If we do see them, the inevitable question will be “Hey where were you?”

 

In The Last Jedi we saw a venerated saga character in Luke Skywalker presented as a grump who wanted nothing to do with the war going on. He became disillusioned and cynical. Eventually that changed, but how he was presented upset half of the Star Wars fans.

If one of the above characters did the same, would it work in this series? Would it be worse? The only way it may work would be a lonely and broken hearted Discord who but only missed his friends so much but eventually “left” angry at the slow social distrust building. Unable or unwilling to fix things he may have just go off to his realm and allow Ponies to continue to turn their backs on each other.
 

Seeing a cynical Twilight would be way too heartbreaking, akin to a grumpy Luke. Though some may actually see some storylines value in this. 
 

Thoughts?  

[Goat-kun 2,527]

The reason why Luke became Dude Skywalker was to lift up Rey Sue, and one cannot deny that there was intersectional feminism involved, Force is female and all that. Disney didn't just want to buy Star Wars as a caretaker, they wanted to OWN it, and that means destroying its past, present, and future in the name of Disney brand recognition. I like to think that H-Bro isn't so arrogant, and they do own MLP along with its characters. Twilight might return, but she would probably not be presented as a hermit on an island chugging down prodigious quantities of thick and smelly sea monster milk. Celestia-like NPC quest giver would be my guess.

 

Discord? Buck Discord, but that's coming from me. Given my hot take analysis of your average fan, new show staffers included, Discord will return, and since they'll be presenting him to the new gen of fans, he'll be his old self.

[Crunchypuff 152]

I can imagine some characters we could see from FIM...

The ones that were turned to stone.

Heck, they might have been the cause of this new world being so divided, maybe they broke free and ruined things when Twilight and friends were no longer around to stop them. I'd rather see the old villains than the old protagonists honestly, since having them around would imply that they let the world fall apart into this. 

Though if we do see maybe Discord or a familiar alicorn or two, I really hope they aren't turned into the bad guys. I did hear something about a group of alicorns being part of the force behind keeping Equestria divided in the movie, but who knows if that's true or not. 

[Truffles 2,033]

The part of their adventure that has been revealed so far that is most intriguing to me is the jewel heist. Presumably, Hasbro learned their lesson over Twilight's stealing in the 2017 movie (even if it was plausibly in-character for her to attempt it) so the heist poses an interesting conundrum: How to make a heist morally acceptable even though it involves stealing?

One way to resolve this is to make it a jewel that has already been stolen and Sunny and the others are trying to get it back to their original owner in exchange for their help.

While the movie could create a new jewel for the sake of a plot, it would be more interesting if it was one we already know of and ties in with Sunny following the stories in her journal about the Mane 6's past. So what's out there:

• I'm  skipping the Elements since they were destroyed and there's no indication Twilight ever attempted to put them back together - though that is still a retroactive possibility.
• The Crystal Heart, which is presumably de-powered and has become nothing more than something pretty to admire. Cadance and Flurry would appreciate having this property returned to the Crystal Empire, presuming the whole place isn't buried under snow. If I was to assess their mood, it would be one of depression and getting the Heart back might be the spark they need to believe again.
• The Bloodstone. Here Ember enters the picture, and her attitude is kind of interesting because I never got the feeling she was fully onboard with Twilight's plans even though she was happy to help. A future Ember without any power to control the dragons would leave her indifferent to other's problems, especially if they aren't even her species. She would be willing to make a deal with Sunny if they get the Bloodstone for her, even if it still lacks its magic.
• The Fire Ruby - my personal favorite. (No surprise, right?) If Rarity gave Spike the Fire Ruby back to him before she passed and it was stolen from his hoard, that could make him very bitter and indifferent to the problems ponies are having - and would make for a good explanation why he didn't try and stop the downfall of the society he and Twilight created together.
• Am I missing anything? I think that's all the major jewels in G4 that could tie into bringing an old character out of "retirement" to partake in Sunny's quest.

As for other immortal characters, I believe Fluttershy, while welcoming a long life at first, might feel like she is going against nature, which she loves so much. So at some point I think she would request Discord stop keeping her immortal. And I think he would follow her into death. Besides, I think Boulder would like to avoid the issues Discord presented over being able to solve any problem, even though he did eventually present his logic in S8 and 9 over not helping every time. But I wouldn't be surprised if we saw and heard from him in flashback stories in the TV series.

I think Thorax is likely gone; there never was any hint changeling leaders live forever. Celestia and Luna might still be around, though aside from a plot device keeping them locked away, I can't imagine them ever becoming bitter and giving up on Equestria. Same goes for Twilight, though if she was to be anything, she'd be even more depressed than Cadance and Flurry Heart over what had happened.

I suppose Hasbro's other big conundrum is their aversion to having heroes die. It sounds like they've tried to sidestep the issue by pushing G5 into the far future, but I don't see how they can avoid talking about the Mane 6 dying if Sunny is so enamored with them and is following in their hoofsteps by following the events in the journal. At least not without a plot device that puts them in stasis or in some portal off in another dimension.

[Misty Shadow 7,869]

Though I have been slightly cynical in discussing my concerns with G5 in the past, I wouldn't go so far to compare this to The Last Jedi...from what I know right now. Disney's issue, like Goat pointed out, was that when they bought out the franchise, they literally wanted to take over the entire thing and pay no respect to the universe's past.  Our first leaked screenshot showed homages to the Mane 6 with Sunny being an apparent admirer of them and the leaked animatic showed the time of the Mane 6 being around being a blessed time they want to go back to. 

Will Twilight Sparkle be made to be like Luke though? I have no idea. It's possible she won't even be alive in G5, as speculation of the magic being gone could also mean her magic of immortality being gone too. And although I've gained great respect for Twilight's character over the years, that would be my preference over her being alive...but being anything like Luke in The Last Jedi. 

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,824]

See, here's the thing, because Luke Skywalker had been through so much in his life, he wanted to rest. I'd actually say right now that if some of the characters from FIM were to come back, they still may hold true to their personality. I'd imagine Twilight still being up there yet, Celestia and Luna being in a different realm. 

[Will Guide 21,360]

I'm going to bit off topic but I think the real reason why I think people are being over harsh on The Last Jedi because they can't accept the fact that people can change over decades of time. To me, it actually did make sense from Luke's perspective to be disillusioned by what he experienced after all this time but by the end of the movie he managed to get back some of his lost idealism. 

The point is characters change over time sometime for the better sometimes for the worse. And that applies to characters on this show as well. Until the answer comes for sure if the FiM appear on the g5 show I say reserve judgment. And if it does happen, don't be too quick to "they change it now it sucks" towards a character's personality. Because they could very easily just be rerailed

[RDDash 19,179]

I just hope it won't become the next The rise of an Alicorn . I loved The last Jedi. I loved how it broke the rules of Star Wars and the message of the movie was good. The world doesn't need anymore Alicorns with the title of the Princess of Friendship. The rules don't apply anymore. Why anypony would want to pick a side? Good vs Evil. Bah. Live your life by your own rules.

 

 

[Megas 27,628]

I wouldn't exactly be thrilled to see them take the Star Wars Sequels approach(especially TLJ) on how the old cast could be portrayed

[HedonismBot 239]

3 hours ago, Will Guide said:

I'm going to bit off topic but I think the real reason why I think people are being over harsh on The Last Jedi because they can't accept the fact that people can change over decades of time. To me, it actually did make sense from Luke's perspective to be disillusioned by what he experienced after all this time but by the end of the movie he managed to get back some of his lost idealism. 

The point is characters change over time sometime for the better sometimes for the worse. And that applies to characters on this show as well. Until the answer comes for sure if the FiM appear on the g5 show I say reserve judgment. And if it does happen, don't be too quick to "they change it now it sucks" towards a character's personality. Because they could very easily just be rerailed

Just because it's plausible doesn't mean we the audience would enjoy seeing it. The idea of G4's happy ending being undone is already generating more than its fair share of controversy. Seeing Twilight go from "Friendship isn’t easy, but it’s worth fighting for!" to "Meh, whatever." would, for many fans, feel like rubbing salt in a wound.

 

[Cagey 4,248]

I like to think we won’t see any of them, since that would be too dark for the show to realistically bring up. I imagine there will be a lot of references to the mane six, although I hope Twilight isn’t around. Man, that would be an unhappy ending to her story. 

I do wonder who’s in charge of Equestria. Maybe we’ll see Luster Dawn. 

[HereComesTom 2,267]

My prediction is that the G-4 characters themselves are, for the most part, long-dead.  Discord, Tirek, Cozy Glow, and Chrysalis are potential exceptions, and there might be others like Spike, too.

Spike might've embraced the solitary life of a normal dragon after Twilight passed away, or might've moved so far from Equestria after Twilight's death that he had no idea what was happening there---or he might also have passed away.

 

I also predict that the G-4 actors will make a comeback as the avatar of the Treehouse of Harmony:  remember that it could create a kind of a spirit-avatar and take the form of any one of the mane six.  That treehouse was still around as of the end of Season 9, so it could easily make a comeback in G-5.  Considering Sunny's motivations, it wouldn't be surprising if she ended up visiting that treehouse and mistaking the spirit-avatar for the ghosts of the mane six!  The character designs would be back, as would the voice actresses---but not the characters themselves per se.

The treehouse-of-harmony cameo would dodge the Last Jedi problem that Star Wars had, but would still get us a satisfying continuity bridge with G-4; that's why I predict they'll do it that way.

[TBD 17,254]

People are worried about Twilight falling into a despair and failures which lead the whole world doom and gloom. They have to consider that Twilight, despite of many years of knowledge and experiences, she does have one major flaw that could possibly lead to her demise.  Being too self-conscious. Twilight tends to overthink things and can fall into guilt-trapping herself easily.  I would like to think Twilight is perfectionist and that could also be her downfall. She's not as stable as Princess Celestia as she's not the kind to take a leadership role, as we saw how she is when she first took the title as a "princess".  She's also not that kind to stay behind the curtain like Princess Luna either. Twilight to me is a mixed of both Princess Celestia and Luna. She's willing to take on any challenge like celestia but will feel quite under pressure doing so like Luna.  

My point is I think there's a high possibility Twilight might have fallen into a dark path due to some trauma that triggered her weakness, just as what happen to Princess Luna. As we saw Midnight from Equestria Girls, who values knowledge.  My prediction is Twilight might have faced a problem that even herself couldn't solve. Thus feeling helpless that she can't solve the problem, go out and seek for any possible answers, even if it's lead her to becoming Midnight. 

I personality think if they were to chose to go down to that path, that would be very interesting. And that goes to show that even the greatest and honorable leader(s)/hero can fall. Every of one them have to face a challenge that will be an ultimate test for them.  Luke has faced an ultimate test when he has to decide what to do with Kylo and running a jedi temple. Anakin faced a ultimate test when he have to choose between the Jedi or the sith. Thus Twilight too, will have faced a test that will determine her greater fate. As sad as it sounds, the great satisfaction coming out from this is when they decided to get back on their feet and fight! Like how Luke and Anakin did, as they both have similar traits as Twilight.

[Pentium100 2,122]

2 hours ago, TBD said:

She's not as stable as Princess Celestia as she's not the kind to take a leadership role, as we saw how she is when she first took the title as a "princess". 

Yeah, and if this is the official reason, then it makes the last seasons of G4 even more sad than they were before. It would mean that not only Celestia pretty much forced Twilight to take up the role, but that Twilight was not even suitable for it. Instead of letting her do what she can do and wants to do, Celestia had a plan for Twilight's "destiny" which first turned her into someone she did not want to be, then made her take a job she never wanted. And it all ended badly.

[HereComesTom 2,267]

1 hour ago, Pentium100 said:

Yeah, and if this is the official reason, then it makes the last seasons of G4 even more sad than they were before. It would mean that not only Celestia pretty much forced Twilight to take up the role, but that Twilight was not even suitable for it. Instead of letting her do what she can do and wants to do, Celestia had a plan for Twilight's "destiny" which first turned her into someone she did not want to be, then made her take a job she never wanted. And it all ended badly.

That'd be sad, but at the same time, somewhat plausible.

I mean, when I first heard during Season 9 that Celestia was retiring and giving the throne to Twilight, my first reaction was "The reason Twilight is as effective as she is, is her friendship with the rest of the mane six---that and the fact that she's able to drop everything and charge into heroics when the need arises.  Give her this much government responsibility and move her away from her friends, and she's going to lose both of those things; it defeats Twilight's purpose!"

The Final Problem seemed to disprove this; Equestria was more diverse and apparently stronger than ever with Twilight having rules for decades...but looks can be deceiving. 

Some part of me wants to say that, even if Twilight is a perfectionist and has OCD, I'd expect her friends to pull her back to sanity if she ever gets to be too stressed or crazy...but what happens if Twilight outlives her friends?

I remember a G-4 writers said that wouldn't happen shortly after Twilight got her wings at the end of season 3; if the G-5 writers stick to that, then the Last Jedi problem is averted.  If not...well, there's a lot of ways this could go.

 

Another way just popped into my head as I wrote this:  if Twilight is alive, there's no guarantee she's aware of what's happening in Maretime Bay; she could be retired or living somewhere distant and kept in the dark about it.

[Twilight Luna 31,375]

It will be interesting to see how Twilight and her friends are remembered by this new generation of ponies. Something tells me that ponies will not think about them in a favorable light. With all the distrust going on between the pony groups, ponies will think that the ideas of friendship and all the pony groups living together is outdated and no longer possible much like chancellor Neihsay not trusting non-pony creatures.

[EpicEnergy 23,218]

I thought the Last Jedi was a fantastic movie, but I doubt G5 will be similar to The Last Jedi in terms of it's depiction of the previous movies'/show's primary characters. It's possible that would occur, but not likely in my opinion.

[Pentium100 2,122]

On 2021-03-03 at 12:54 AM, HereComesTom said:

I mean, when I first heard during Season 9 that Celestia was retiring and giving the throne to Twilight, my first reaction was "The reason Twilight is as effective as she is, is her friendship with the rest of the mane six---that and the fact that she's able to drop everything and charge into heroics when the need arises.  Give her this much government responsibility and move her away from her friends, and she's going to lose both of those things; it defeats Twilight's purpose!"

Yeah, the series turned into a premise that bing a leader/politician is unversally good and this was kind-of reward for Twilight. I guess this has roots in fairy tales and such where a king offers his kingdom (or half oh his kingdom) for anyone who can accomplish some heroic job. I do not think it is correct. 

Twilight started out as a nerd, then she was basically forced to become a special forces operative, then turned into a politician. There was no reason for it, she never said she wanted it. You know, being in special forces or a spy and then becoming a politician was how Putin got in power, but I'm pretty sure he wanted it instead of being forced into it.

However, the last G4 episode shows Equestria to be going along great, Twilight apparently getting used to her job (whether she actually started to like it or "got used to it" much ike a dog being hanged is a good question), so, I guess it all worked out in the end, even though I do not think that it was the right decision by Celestia or the writers.

However, if Equestria falls so severely without some unexpected disaster happening and just because of Twilight's incompetence, then this means that Celestia basically ruined the country and Twilight's life because of her plans.

You know, maybe Twilight never got used to it, finaly grew a spine, told everyone, including Celestia, where to go, retired and turned Equestria into a democracy not caring what happens to it, as long as she has her books (and her friends if they are still alive). I think, this would be the version I would like the most.

[Misty Shadow 7,869]

1 hour ago, Califorum said:

I feel like if this is a thousand years later than Twilight could still be in power and be a god-like Celestia like figure, or she could have stepped down and retired like Celestia and Luna.

Probably not. Remember, Equestria is now divided in this world, very likely the result of corrupt leadership. If she stepped down, I doubt she would abdicate her position to a ruler who would allow Equestria to get to the point it's at in G5. Unless she turned evil or messed up.  Those plotlines though...not a fan. 

[Misty Shadow 7,869]

48 minutes ago, Califorum said:

Then we can say she turned evil or messed up. I would like that actually, or maybe she was de-throned by someone else and defeated.

A plot with her turning evil or messing up could be good if it was well-executed, but if we are talking The Last Jedi here, where Luke messing up was done terribly... 

[Pipp 17]

For me, the idea of some descendants works  

I doubt that we will be able to see some ponies from G4, mostly because G5 movie takes place (I assume) thousand years after generation 4 when ponies (separately) decided to go onward with technology. Some may even ended up assuming magic as something that only causes bad things to happen, so yeah...

About The Last Jedi... please, I had some hope for that movie and what they did? Ugh..

MLP Team on the other hand is unique and the ideas, scripts, great people inside are not fully controled by one big corporation. Believe or not, hasbro actually gives you more freedom in terms of creativity. But don't think people can actually do whatever they want, no. It's still a company with plenty of rules/deadlines, especially when it comes to upcoming movie that stressed out a lot of people. (You know, movie is kinda a big thing.)

Also, when G4 started no one expected it to be something big, rather a small show with small target, so team behind the show had almost full freedom in terms of what they wanted to put on the show and that's why, I think, G4 succeeded. Nowadays, it's the same, so expect some crazy ideas that hopefully will work lol 

[HereComesTom 2,267]

1 hour ago, Pipp Petals said:

MLP Team on the other hand is unique and the ideas, scripts, great people inside are not fully controled by one big corporation. Believe or not, hasbro actually gives you more freedom in terms of creativity. But don't think people can actually do whatever they want, no. It's still a company with plenty of rules/deadlines, especially when it comes to upcoming movie that stressed out a lot of people. (You know, movie is kinda a big thing.)

Also, when G4 started no one expected it to be something big, rather a small show with small target, so team behind the show had almost full freedom in terms of what they wanted to put on the show and that's why, I think, G4 succeeded. Nowadays, it's the same, so expect some crazy ideas that hopefully will work lol 

I'm glad to hear it creative freedom is really important, but I sure hope the G-5 writers understand enough of the G-4 lore to avoid plot holes or contradictory canon...and I sure hope they give Twilight a proper ending (or continuation?) to her story that doesn't betray who she became in G-4!