LGBT in MLP - brought up by Jeremy Whitley

[Anonymous Old User Who Has Left 599]

So a recent article came up on EQD that has caused a MASSIVE flame war that 4chan would be proud of. (I goti into it too and finally crawled out alive lol) At BabsCON, Jeremy Whitley brought up the possibility of female/female shipping (aka lesbianism) in the show.

 

Image proof: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xI4m71Cggzc/Vx44h3Da4eI/AAAAAAACj48/jWtm4NR8WoYXYRteXFixRUjQP2zSoJbXgCLcB/s1600/index.png

 

Instead of starting another flame war on this topic, please fill out my form below. If you'd like me to fix any errors you find in the form, please reply and I'll respond as soon as I can.

 

Form link (just copy-paste it into a new tab):

 

http://goo.gl/forms/9DkYolNOQb

 

Peace out,

Shabb3r

Edited April 25, 2016 by Shabb3r

[Megas 27,069]

Bringing an LGBT pair is something I'd love to see the show do, even if it'd be incredibly risky for them to do

 

But I really don't want them to use FlutterDash for it, or any involving Rainbow Dash, mainly because there's so much bullshit involved. Since the beginning of the fandom, Rainbow Dash was always assumed to be lesbian based almost entirely on stereotypes, namely her rainbow-colored design and her tomboyish personality. Bronies can argue semantics all they want, but if they ever revealed Rainbow Dash was a lesbian, to a lot of people could see it as the show pandering to stereotypes, which has always been something the show made a point to avoid/subvert to the most part. It'd probably do more damage to the show than it would benefit the show.

 

If they'd ever decided to make any of the mane 6 LGBT or confirmed a pair(which I don't think they should), they should do it with Rarity and Applejack. Much like Fluttershy and Rainbow Dash, there's enough material between the two for some plausibility, but unlike Rainbow Dash, neither would have any credibility shot by stereotypes, so it'd be a lot easier for them to get away with it....

 

And even then, there's still the subject of the MLP shipping community, which is both a different beast, and a bigger shit storm all together

Edited April 25, 2016 by Megas

[M'gann M'orzz 745]

I am literally 100% for Rarijack happening, it would overjoy me and IMO it's (and actually FlutterDash as well) are the only inter character relationships that we've really seen grow enough for it to be believable.

Of the two I think Rarijack is better, more fleshed out and just generally would be more entertaining in a romantic context.

Edited April 25, 2016 by M'gann M'orzz

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,304]

Here is how you do it: Introduce new ponies that are LGBT and explore that and don't even touch any of the mane 6 with the concept, as the fandom will flip its stuff if they do that. I for one really would love to see some LGBT representation in a show like this, it would be really, really cool to see. It is a concept that I want to see be openly explored. 

[Anonymous Old User Who Has Left 599]

SMH u guys disobeyed me lol

Edited April 25, 2016 by Shabb3r

[Glike 487]

I am completely fine with LGBT representation in MLP. I'm for it even.

 

I wouldn't want any of the Mane Six in that type of relationship with each other, only because I think it would ruin the dynamic. Once you have romance involved in a group of friends things tend to become different very quickly.

 

I'm fine for this to happen with minor characters.

 

Heck, they're already practically implying this with Lyra and Bon Bon, both in the show and with their promotion. Plus, their interactions haven't been out of place or disconcerting in the slightest. It's actually very sweet.

 

Yeah, I'm completely fine with it. :3

[Buck Testa 5,503]

As much as I would love to make all my shipping dreams come true, I think making an lgbt couple as background characters would be the best way to go about it if they actually did make it happen in the first place.

 

You know who'd make for a FANTASTIC gay character?

That would be a REALLY interesting twist for him. 

[Anonymous Old User Who Has Left 599]

ok I'l allow you all to chat   Once this topic thread is calm and composed though with no arguments. Should be fine. Please do fill out that form before replying though. Thanks 

[Glike 487]

ok I'l allow you all to chat   Once this topic thread is calm and composed though with no arguments. Should be fine. Please do fill out that form before replying though. Thanks 

Well, I can't speak for the others but I promise you I filled out the form well before I even posted here.

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,329]

I'd be okay with it if done well. First it would have to make sense. Don't just add in an LGBT couple for the sake of having it, for it looks terrible from a writing standpoint. Rather, pair up to characters that makes sense. The one of the mane six that makes the most sense is Rarity and Applejack (Twilight and Pinkie I would squee with, but my shipping biases wouldn't work here). Next, the pairing would need proper development which should be second nature. I need a way to care and root for the 2 characters to get together. And of course there needs to be away to do it without stirring up any controversy which is near impossible. I'm still surprised Steven Universe managed to do it.

[SawmillTurtle 56]

 

 

But I really don't want them to use FlutterDash for it, or any involving Rainbow Dash, mainly because there's so much bullshit involved. Since the beginning of the fandom, Rainbow Dash was always assumed to be lesbian based almost entirely on stereotypes, namely her rainbow-colored design and her tomboyish personality. Bronies can argue semantics all they want, but if they ever revealed Rainbow Dash was a lesbian, to a lot of people could see it as the show pandering to stereotypes, which has always been something the show made a point to avoid/subvert to the most part. It'd probably do more damage to the show than it would benefit the show.

 

Allowing the perceptions of others and ridiculous stereotypes determine the course of the story is a compromise that no writer should make. Allowing the negativity of certain members of your audience to affect the decisions of the characters is a form of literary dishonesty. As an avid writer and reader, I know all about literary dishonesty, and even though the MLP show isn't technically literature, the term still applies as they are still weaving a narrative.

 

One of my favorite writers, Stephen King, has always talked about letting the characters do what the characters want to do. Don't try to force them into situations they wouldn't be in, or censor them because someone might not like their decisions. To hell with the criticism. If Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy were meant to develop into a couple from the beginning, or if that's just the direction the writers feel the characters taking them, who are the viewers to tell them it shouldn't be?

 

In fact, refusing to explore the idea of Rainbow Dash's sexuality simply because it might be unfavorable is just as bad as not exploring LGBT issues at all for the same reason. It's either acceptable to explore with all the characters, or it's not okay to do it for any of them.

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,298]

That was an easy one.

 

While, from a "shipping" perspective, I'd say that Mane Six X Mane Six makes comparatively more sense than a ton of mare X stallion ships out there, I also think that the Mane Six ought not to be canonically paired with anypony, male or female.  It could noticeably change the dynamic of their friendship and, considering that the mane cast is comprised of the Mane Six, the dynamic of the show, and I'm not sure how well that would be handled by staff.  Admittedly, I'd still be much closer to supporting Mane Six X Mane Six than I would be to supporting Mane Six X some random stallion.  Every member of the Mane Six loves the others, and they've been through a lot together.  That's still a far better basis for a potential romantic relationship than, "Oh, they look cute together," or, "They spent ten seconds on screen with one another."

 

Self-explanatory.

 

It would have to be done very, very poorly indeed for me to stop watching the show as a result.  I joke about shipping Braeburn with every stallion under the sun, but if that became canon...  Okay, I'd probably still watch.  But I wouldn't consider that a responsible way to introduce LGBT to MLP.

 

I think homosexual relationships had ought to be seen as every bit as acceptable as heterosexual ones.

 

Under certain circumstances, I'm not overly keen on heterosexual relationships in MLP.  Yes, this IS hypocritical, and I just saved potential quote-ers some time in admitting it.  Call it a matter of personal preference.  I do, however, think that homosexual pairings should be at least as likely a possibility; not something that's immediately swatted down on account of being "different" or not as widely embraced.  Part of me does think that the show might be better off if it avoided relationships altogether; I don't want no relationship drama wit' my MLP.  I get enough of that on the likes of Arrow.  And I don't want every member of the Mane Six suddenly paired off with a stallion in some contrived and slipshod manner.  It's not - and will never be - the potential presence of LGBT that bothers me; it's opening the floodgates of rampant canon-based shipping that scares me.  If MLP becomes a show where every mare has a "boyfriend" and there's, like, one homosexual couple that gets two seconds of screen-time...  No.  THEN I'll stop watching.

 

But I wouldn't stop watching due to LGBT.  Introduce a gay couple, mare X mare or stallion X stallion, who clearly love each other and depict a homosexual relationship as something no less special or acceptable than a heterosexual relationship, and I'll tune in TO see it.

 

I think it's cool they feel that way.  I don't necessarily agree with exactly how to go about it, but I think their heart is definitely in the right place.

[Megas 27,069]

Allowing the perceptions of others and ridiculous stereotypes determine the course of the story is a compromise that no writer should make. Allowing the negativity of certain members of your audience to affect the decisions of the characters is a form of literary dishonesty. As an avid writer and reader, I know all about literary dishonesty, and even though the MLP show isn't technically literature, the term still applies as they are still weaving a narrative.

 

One of my favorite writers, Stephen King, has always talked about letting the characters do what the characters want to do. Don't try to force them into situations they wouldn't be in, or censor them because someone might not like their decisions. To hell with the criticism. If Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy were meant to develop into a couple from the beginning, or if that's just the direction the writers feel the characters taking them, who are the viewers to tell them it shouldn't be?

 

In fact, refusing to explore the idea of Rainbow Dash's sexuality simply because it might be unfavorable is just as bad as not exploring LGBT issues at all for the same reason. It's either acceptable to explore with all the characters, or it's not okay to do it for any of them.

LGBT is one of those issues writers have to tread carefully over especially now that it's such a hot issue. And especially with the fact that there's so much debate and controversy revolving around RD's sexuality than literally everyone else's in the show combined, it's one of those things that no matter what happens a big shitstorm is guaranteed to happen and no one wins. 

 

There's a lot of characters and ways for the show to approach LGBT, I just don't think RD's the one to do it with, the payoff wouldn't be worth it. Besides, not everyone needs to be in a relationship

Edited April 25, 2016 by Megas

[M'gann M'orzz 745]

A part of me honestly wants FlutterDash or Rarijack to happen JUST TO SEE the massive mounds of salt that would be produced by the AppleDash shippers, it would greatly amuse me.

[SawmillTurtle 56]

 

 

LGBT is one of those issues writers have to tread carefully over especially now that it's such a hot issue. And especially with the fact that there's so much debate and controversy revolving around RD's sexuality than literally everyone else's in the show combined, it's one of those things that no matter what happens a big shitstorm is guaranteed to happen and no one wins. There's a lot of characters and ways for the show to approach LGBT, I just don't think RD's the one to do it with, the payoff wouldn't be worth it. Besides, not everyone needs to be in a relationship

 

While I agree with you that treading carefully is the way to go, while I was reading your post I immediately thought of JK Rowling and Harry Potter. Do you remember when she told everyone that Dumbledore was gay? She'd planned it that way from the beginning, and she proceeded as she always intended regardless of what the backlash turned out to be. She plotted those characters years in advance and she didn't change them because of the stink certain groups were making about the books. Conservative groups called them evil, spread lies about them and participated in book burnings the likes of which hadn't been seen since Nazi Germany. She was already controversial, and she knew that revealing Dumbledore's true nature was going to cause a stink, but she did it anyway.

 

In the end, that turned out to be the right decision. Those who liked the stories continued to be fans, and those who already hated them just screamed "Rabble rabble rabble" that much louder.

[Scootalove 10,684]

LGBT couples or characters are okay if they are written well and not just there to attempt on being in the good graces of the community, the pairs don't even have to be romantically interested in the Mane 6 at all, it's up to the writer I suppose.

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,298]

One of my favorite writers, Stephen King, has always talked about letting the characters do what the characters want to do. Don't try to force them into situations they wouldn't be in, or censor them because someone might not like their decisions. To hell with the criticism. If Rainbow Dash and Fluttershy were meant to develop into a couple from the beginning, or if that's just the direction the writers feel the characters taking them, who are the viewers to tell them it shouldn't be?

You're comparing two entirely different forms of writing and two entirely different audiences.  During the course of a novel, it's usually one person in particular who's in control of the characters' destinies.  Once a novel is published, everything is simply there; to be approved of or otherwise.  If someone has an issue with a development, it occurs on page 99 and possibly within the same context that introduced the character that it involves.

 

If you're talking about a TEAM of writers for an episodic television series... Whole different animal altogether.  Go five, six seasons without dropping so much as a single concrete, unambiguous hint of something and then decide to jump in headfirst, and that doesn't strike me as literary honesty.  I don't see the writers devoting an entire season to revealing the heretofore hidden or suppressed romantic feelings existing between one Mane Six member and another.  It'd be irresponsible writing to just throw it out there, ignoring everything that they've heretofore failed to say.

 

I would favor a homosexual couple comprised of two completely new ponies whose love story, from the very beginning, made sense.  Short of updating every past season of FIM with all new content, that's just not feasible for any of the Mane Six at this point.  I, of course, believe that they all love one another.  It's not outside the realm of possibility that some of them would be something other than heterosexual, but I think this is something that deserves more care and forethought.  Not just: "Okay, these two ponies have been gay and attracted to each other all along; we just didn't say."

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

Do you support LGBT in MLP? Would it be OK?

LGBT support in family-friendly media is virtually absent outside of a few examples, including some books and Steven Universe. To push it into FIM, when done right, would be a major step in the right direction, particularly because Hasbro wasn't LGBT-friendly until recently.

 

(FOR SUPPORTERS ONLY) Background characters OR Main cast OR Princesses?

Princesses and Mane Eight are out. For one, Cadance is in a relationship. Celestia and Luna are too busy maintaining life and order in Equestria. Twilight Sparkle has no time courting or being courted by anyone. Secondly, friendship is the predominant theme, not romance. To thrust romance on the Mane Six, either romance between them or with someone else, hasn't worked because there's not as much as a hint of it anywhere. The lone exception is Twilight's and Flash's crushes on each other, and it was backed by stereotypes. I'm for romance in the background or for new characters, because they're blank slates and you can build them through there.

 

If Hasbro gives MLP the green-light for LGBT, would you still watch the show?

If Hasbro gives MLP the green-light for LGBT, would you still think highly of the show? *

Yes for both. But don't thrust in LGBT romance just for the sake of it. To do so panders to the LGBT community and treats them as props, not people.

 

Do you want to see more pairings in MLP? *

I'll answer this differently, as none of them gave me the answer I'm looking for.

 

Personally, I would rather not have any romance in this series at all: Every single one is a disaster. Shining Armor and Cadance's romance was confined to exposition, and Cadance isn't a good-quality character. Flash Sentry and Twilight is backed by obnoxious clichés, no chemistry, sexist stereotypes, and Twilight's character derailment. (EQG's romance subplot is worse than the romance from The Twilight Series.) In the comics, Celestia and AU!Sombra's romance is sullied by Celestia's poor characterization.

 

But if you execute the romance well, go ahead. I don't care if it's same-sex or not. But like I wrote before, don't insert romance for the sake of it. Give your romance a purpose. Don't pander to stereotypes. And be especially careful if the romance or topic is LGBT. If the same-sex romance falls for the same stereotypes that the LGBT community fight so hard to dispel, then you'll cause a massive wave of anger, because you're using lazy writing under the name of inclusion. A recent episode from The Powerpuff Girls (2016) called Horn, Sweet Horn was a transgender allegory as a positive representation of transpeople. However, the three sisters were horrible to him, and they shoehorned massive transphobic implications. In short, research everything thoroughly and shortchange nothing.

 

Are you upset at Jeremy Whitley for bringing up/considering such a topic for MLP? *

Not upset at all. There's nothing he did here to upset me.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Dark Qiviut

[ggg-2 3,550]

I'm not against LGBT rights, but........Hasbro wouldn't and shouldn't dare do this in a million years. FiM airs worldwide and, i'm willing to bet, in countries where being gay or transgender is not only controversial, but outright ILLEGAL.

Edited April 25, 2016 by ggg-2

[Castle Bleck 19,167]

Reminds me of how The Legend Of Korra ended.

 

However, a lot, if not most, of the fans felt that the actual execution was just an @$$pull.

[Grepper 3,192]

I'd support this, but I don't really think it will happen any time soon.

 

I'm not against LGBT rights, but........Hasbro wouldn't and shouldn't dare do this in a million years. FiM airs worldwide and, i'm willing to bet, in countries where being gay or transgender is not only controversial, but outright ILLEGAL.

 

All the more to do it. To be realistic, those parts would be censored in those countries' localized versions. The media is probably heavily censored in places where being gay is illegal, anyway.

[Yufery 205]

I would be for it, INCLUDING if any of the princesses, background characters, or Mane 6 were involved. For the princesses (save for Cadance, whose already in a relationship (OTP) ), I could see them potentially getting romantically involved with another character if political nonsense dies down a bit. Background/new characters, well, are those even really something I have to bring up reasoning for why? I mean there's basically one that's canon already; Lyra/Bon Bon. For the Mane 6, I'd be happy with any of them being in a relationship, with each other or otherwise (Twiflash is an adorable ship FYI). After all, I doubt the writers would just suddenly put two characters in a relationship; there'd be buildup. You could argue that Twiflash doesn't have any buildup, but bare in mind that they aren't actually together but rather just have harmless crushes for one another. Honestly, anything could be done well, and since, in my opinion, the writers of the show have done an OUTSTANDING job throughout all 6 seasons and 3 EQG movies, I trust that they'd execute it well.

 

There will be people who like and dislike everything. There will be people who treat their viewpoints as fact and convince a large portion of the fandom towards one perspective. That doesn't mean the writers shouldn't do what they think is a good idea.

[takai 1,060]

Relationships in general aren't appropriate for a cartoon aimed at young children made for the sole purpose of teaching them the basics of friendship and how to treat one another with kindness and respect. I see people use the excuse "well these kids need to explore their sexuality".

 

No, no they do not. Not at all. These are children; small children still in grade school. A very large majority of children in no way, shape, or form are even thinking about things like that. Yet we have these progressives thinking it's a good idea to push our social issues onto our children.

 

Again, MLP is a children's show made to teach them social skills, the importance to respect for one another, and kindness to those all around you. If the writer of the comic doesn't get that, he clearly doesn't need to be writing the comic.

 

But as a heterosexual myself, I would be especially upset if Fluttershy was turned into a lesbian for the sake of diversity.

Edited April 26, 2016 by takai

[GeekySonic 1,150]

I don't think it's a bad idea, necessarily (the link to the form isn't loading on my phone, sowwy )

 

Like a couple folks have already said, if it's forced in there just for the sake of having it, I don't think it will end well. I also don't honestly believe any of the main characters to have romantic feelings for each other.

 

However, I'm open for any possibilities. I tremble at the thought of the fandom tearing itself apart if any said relationship, regardless of who it consists of, appears in the show. But I digress.

 

This show is capable of quite a lot. Surprise me, MLP.

[Guest]

I see this as a good thing, but also incredibly risky. So many fans assume their "ships" are canon and we already teeter on the fact that too many fans take their headcanon too seriously, this could give them the impression that Hasbro is listening to their headcanon. It would be wiser to do it with two characters that will never really have any significance just to keep hardcore headcanon people at bay.

 

I feel there is a certain danger in giving fans the impression that they control the show.