Who's a worse pony? Trixie or Diamond Tiara?

[Hazardus_Havard. 479]

I personally LIKE Trixie's personality of over-saturated showmanship and the more often than not false bravado she displays; It definitely gives her character (she's sort of like a flaunted up on magic version of Rainbow Dash).

 

Diamond Tiara though is very strong on her haughty, spoiled attitude towards others dealing with her betterment in society and her shoved out vaunt above others that it becomes very hard to watch nearly ANY scene with her in it.

[Doctor XFizzle 8,651]

Oh this topic is riiiiiiight up my alley

 

*ahem*

 

They are both terrible, but Diamond Tiara gets a pass due to her young age, immaturity, and being pampered most of her life. She doesn't know any better and acts the way she does because no one, like her parents, has told her otherwise.

 

Trixie on the other hand, is an older, mature pony who is unequivocally an arrogant, self-aggrandizing show-off who would put an entire town in danger just to garner attention to herself.

 

Yes I did use big words in this post to confuse Tom so he cannot rebut me.

[My little pwny 1,390]

The thread's poll called me, it says its back from the dead. Vote if you haven't already.

[Guest]

I'm not in the habit of calling one pony worse than another (unless of course Rarity is involved, in which case she is better than everypony :3), but that is besides the point.

 

Neither for me.

[z11011 16]

Diamond tiara is worse because Trixie is a travelling entertainer.She only boasts because it adds to her popularity, while diamond tiara simply chooses to be like that.

[Starswirl the Trixie 974]

Oh this topic is riiiiiiight up my alley

 

*ahem*

 

They are both terrible, but Diamond Tiara gets a pass due to her young age, immaturity, and being pampered most of her life. She doesn't know any better and acts the way she does because no one, like her parents, has told her otherwise.

 

Trixie on the other hand, is an older, mature pony who is unequivocally an arrogant, self-aggrandizing show-off who would put an entire town in danger just to garner attention to herself.

 

Yes I did use big words in this post to confuse Tom so he cannot rebut me.

 

I, unfortunately, understand big words.

 

I don't really care about Diamond Tiara; while it is highly likely that she will grow up with a not-so-cordial personality, one cannot truly know at this point.

 

As to your comments on Trixie, my only problem with it is all of it.

 

unequivocally an arrogant

Really? Her boasting of her abilities was part of her act. It is difficult to know what her non-stage personality is. Most of the appeal in overstating her abilities was to win the hearts of foals. And, indeed, the only two foals shown (Snips/Snails) were happy after her performance. Even if Trixie is very arrogant when not performing she is not shown doing any great crimes as a result of her arrogance. Trixie's only shown flaw is having too much pride; it does not inspire her to commit evils. So even if she is arrogant, this has few ill effects and you cannot use the term "unequivocally", as there is a reasonable level of doubt in the matter.

 

self-aggrandizing

Every magician, on Earth or in Equestria, uses deception and overstatement as part of their act. The Ursa story was used by Trixie to show her true talent of illusion. The audience was impressed not simply by the story, but by Trixie's magical animation in the air depicting the events. She could have illustrated any story this way; she chose a tall tale about herself to build a persona.

 

show-off

Her cutie mark hints that her special talent has something to do with stage magic. You honestly expect her to not perform her special talent because it is "showing-off"? Showing-off is different from arrogance. And isn't it Applejack who routinely goes to competitions to win some measly prize money in events that have nothing to do with her special talent? . If Trixie is a show-off, than what is Applejack?

 

who would put an entire town in danger just to garner attention to herself.

You're joking, right? Here's a similar scenario. Bob and Bill are standing atop a tall building. Bob says "I've jumped off buildings like this before with no parachute and survived with no real injuries. I must be the best person at it in the world." Bill says "Hmm, I wonder if you're telling the truth." Bill pushes Bob off to his death. Was Bob's death a suicide?

 

If you conclude "no", then you absolve Trixie of all responsibility in the Ursa attack. If you conclude "yes", then you must accept all sorts of crazy behavior as being acceptable (ex trying to kill people who claim that they are unable to be harmed). And the rooftop example IS similar to Trixie. In both, Person A overstates his/her abilities. To see if this is true, Person B does something disastrous to test A's abilities.

 

With all the dozens of debates about the "Is Trixie a good pony?" question, you'd think that a resolution would have been reached by now. By the way, Trixie is a textbook example of a romantic hero.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Starswirl the Trixied

[Mare in the Moon 173]

I am pretty fond of Trixie at this point.

 

Diamond Tiara is B1atch though. I never liked her. Her design is cute, but I hate the character.

[Nightfall 3,950]

I'm not a Trixie fan, but Diamond Tiara is WAAAAAAAAY worse than Trixie.

[JhonHipster 124]

Trixie brags, whereas diamond tiara is just generally mean.

 

So imma go with DT is worse.

[sirseansy 87]

Diamond Tiara is egotistical AND evil. that is all.

[dftrent12 32]

Diamond Tiara is with out a doubt worse than Trixie because Diamond Tiara is just plain mean. She doesn't have a reason to be but she is. Trixie on the other hand is just arrogant but not necessarily mean. As I'm sure somepony has said before (too many posts to read them all) Trixie is just doing her job as a magician.

[Zweiterversuch 50]

Diamond tiara totally.

[Ponei 48]

Diamond Tiara needs to be destroyed

 

[Sunny Fox 5,929]

Really? Her boasting of her abilities was part of her act. It is difficult to know what her non-stage personality is. Most of the appeal in overstating her abilities was to win the hearts of foals. And, indeed, the only two foals shown (Snips/Snails) were happy after her performance. Even if Trixie is very arrogant when not performing she is not shown doing any great crimes as a result of her arrogance. Trixie's only shown flaw is having too much pride; it does not inspire her to commit evils. So even if she is arrogant, this has few ill effects and you cannot use the term "unequivocally", as there is a reasonable level of doubt in the matter.

 

Actually, "unequivocally" is perfectly acceptable in the sense of "in a way that is clear and unambiguous". You basically admit yourself that she is arrogant. What I think you mean is that how badly that arrogance should be viewed is doubtful. Is she "clearly and unambiguously arrogant?" Yes. Does that make her bad? That is what is doubtful.

 

Every magician, on Earth or in Equestria, uses deception and overstatement as part of their act. The Ursa story was used by Trixie to show her true talent of illusion. The audience was impressed not simply by the story, but by Trixie's magical animation in the air depicting the events. She could have illustrated any story this way; she chose a tall tale about herself to build a persona.

 

The Ursa story was to make herself seem impressive. That illusion amounted to a neon sign, which is considerably less impressive than what she did earlier and later. Also, Snips and Snails continuously pointed out that her "defeat of the Ursa Major" made her so wonderful, never a word about her "amazing illusion skills", which rather undermines your statement.

 

Her cutie mark hints that her special talent has something to do with stage magic. You honestly expect her to not perform her special talent because it is "showing-off"? Showing-off is different from arrogance. And isn't it Applejack who routinely goes to competitions to win some measly prize money in events that have nothing to do with her special talent? . If Trixie is a show-off, than what is Applejack?

 

Applejack competes in rodeos. She is an athlete striving to perform well. If she is showing off, then so is every amateur or professional sportsman and sportswoman in existence. Sure, some people use a sport as a method of showing off, but they are not equivalent.

You're joking, right? Here's a similar scenario. Bob and Bill are standing atop a tall building. Bob says "I've jumped off buildings like this before with no parachute and survived with no real injuries. I must be the best person at it in the world." Bill says "Hmm, I wonder if you're telling the truth." Bill pushes Bob off to his death. Was Bob's death a suicide?

 

Technically, suicide is when you intend to kill yourself. So the deciding factor is if Bob intended to get Bill to push him. If yes, it's suicide. If no, it's murder. We can assume that Trixie did not intend S&S to bring the Ursa to town. So taking that into account, I would conclude it was murder rather than suicide.

If you conclude "no", then you absolve Trixie of all responsibility in the Ursa attack. If you conclude "yes", then you must accept all sorts of crazy behavior as being acceptable (ex trying to kill people who claim that they are unable to be harmed). And the rooftop example IS similar to Trixie. In both, Person A overstates his/her abilities. To see if this is true, Person B does something disastrous to test A's abilities.

 

This is where I disagree. The issue of responsibility is entirely separate to the issue of intention which determined whether Bob's death was a suicide or murder. If by your actions or words you cause a situation to happen, you are still responsible for what happens, whether you intended it or not. So Bob is still responsible for his own death, albeit indirectly responsible, whereas Bill is directly responsible. In the same way, S&S were directly responsible for bringing the Ursa to town, and both Spike and Trixie were indirectly responsible. Furthermore, the situation would not have existed in the first place without Trixie's story. So the entire chain originates with her. She is not absolved of anything. Can we go further back in the chain? RD challenged Trixie, so is RD responsible? I would say not, because before that time, there was no specific mention of the Ursa. Trixie could have come up with any number of other lies to make herself seem better. She chose the particular one that resulted in the whole mess.

With all the dozens of debates about the "Is Trixie a good pony?" question, you'd think that a resolution would have been reached by now. By the way, Trixie is a textbook example of a romantic hero.

 

It's a controversial topic, with many good compelling arguments on both sides. I'm not at all surprised it's still raging.

[Marra da poni 100]

diamond tiara

 

she does more stuff in more episodes than trixie and somehow makes me hate her more. and trixie could at least do something and diamond tiara knows NOTHING

[Jokuc 8,172]

Diamond Tiara, because she is just mean D:

[JustTwentyPercent 7]

Diamond Tiara, she can run a good newspaper company but thats all she's worth. I actually like Trixie despite her showing off.

[Petite Pirouette 7]

DEFINITELY Diamond Tiara. She thinks she can bully people that aren't like her just because her dad is rich and she can get anything she wants. At least Trixie doesn't want to PURPOSEFULLY hurt anyone! She probably just wants ponies to like her.

[FedoraMemes 582]

Diamond Tiara.

 

She's a spoilt little brat, whereas Trixie isn't spoilt and actually has talent.

[Starswirl the Trixie 974]

Actually, "unequivocally" is perfectly acceptable in the sense of "in a way that is clear and unambiguous". stillYou basically admit yourself that she is arrogant. What I think you mean is that how badly that arrogance should be viewed is doubtful. Is she "clearly and unambiguously arrogant?" Yes. Does that make her bad? That is what is doubtful.

I still refrain from calling Trixie's arrogance "unambiguous", I just personally felt that she very well may be arrogant.

 

The Ursa story was to make herself seem impressive. That illusion amounted to a neon sign, which is considerably less impressive than what she did earlier and later. Also, Snips and Snails continuously pointed out that her "defeat of the Ursa Major" made her so wonderful, never a word about her "amazing illusion skills", which rather undermines your statement.

I think that magic was quite a bit more impressive than you claim, but that's a matter of personal taste. Snips and Snails are just children. They likely did not understand the remarkable nature of her illusions. Her Ursa story is partially just a tale to tell with her magic, partially a way to make her seem impressive, and partially to entertain foals.

 

Applejack competes in rodeos. She is an athlete striving to perform well. If she is showing off, then so is every amateur or professional sportsman and sportswoman in existence. Sure, some people use a sport as a method of showing off, but they are not equivalent.

 

Exactly. I doubt that Applejack is a show-off, therefore Trixie cannot be.

 

This is where I disagree. The issue of responsibility is entirely separate to the issue of intention which determined whether Bob's death was a suicide or murder. If by your actions or words you cause a situation to happen, you are still responsible for what happens, whether you intended it or not. So Bob is still responsible for his own death, albeit indirectly responsible, whereas Bill is directly responsible. In the same way, S&S were directly responsible for bringing the Ursa to town, and both Spike and Trixie were indirectly responsible. Furthermore, the situation would not have existed in the first place without Trixie's story. So the entire chain originates with her. She is not absolved of anything. Can we go further back in the chain? RD challenged Trixie, so is RD responsible? I would say not, because before that time, there was no specific mention of the Ursa. Trixie could have come up with any number of other lies to make herself seem better. She chose the particular one that resulted in the whole mess.

 

Trxie had indirect responsibility, but as you point out, she probably has no more than Spike. Had Trixie not given S&S the dumb idea in the first place they may not have tried to go find an Ursa. But the two colts were inspired not just by wanting to see Trixie do some amazing magic; they also wanted the criticisms raised by Spike to be refuted. Trixie gets a disproportionate share of the blame. And remember: Trixie probably didn't know for sure that Ursas even existed, much less that there were two living in the Everfree Forest, that S&S would go looking for one, and that they would somehow manage to find the cave with the Ursas in it. With the evidence Trixie had at the time of her show, there was a far greater likelihood of a disaster by fireworks mishap, and that chance was also very small.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Starswirl the Trixied

[Dasher 119]

Diamond Tiara because she has to be all stuck up and only bully apple bloom who never did any thing to her except steal all the attention at her Party which she deserved for being mean to the only filly who has not discovered her "special" talent.

[StevieRae 4]

Diamond Tiara because she has to be all stuck up and only bully apple bloom who never did any thing to her except steal all the attention at her Party which she deserved for being mean to the only filly who has not discovered her "special" talent.

 

totally agree

[Sunny Fox 5,929]

I still refrain from calling Trixie's arrogance "unambiguous", I just personally felt that she very well may be arrogant.

 

I think that magic was quite a bit more impressive than you claim, but that's a matter of personal taste. Snips and Snails are just children. They likely did not understand the remarkable nature of her illusions. Her Ursa story is partially just a tale to tell with her magic, partially a way to make her seem impressive, and partially to entertain foals.

 

I don't think either of us can objectively deduce what her intention was. I guess we should agree to disagree on this. Although, if I were to go around the forums calling myself "The Most High and Mighty Full Spectrum" and seriously claiming to be the "wittiest man alive", I don't think many people would disagree that it would be arrogance on my part.

 

Exactly. I doubt that Applejack is a show-off, therefore Trixie cannot be.

 

It's not as simple a logical leap as you implied in your response. The issue of whether Applejack is a show off is a separate issue to whether Trixie is or not, in this case. That Applejack competes in rodeos does not immediately make her a show off. Showing off is not so much what you do as how you do it. Here's an analogy. Image a school sports festival with a running event over a few laps. Imagine that there is a very good athlete, some middle of the range contestants, and a unfit athlete. Now if the good athlete starts to lap the others, does that mean he is showing off? No, he is simply competing to the best of his ability. If he were to start jogging backwards, then run some rings around the poor unfit athlete, or play to the crowd, then he would be showing off. In the same way, you would have to look at how she behaves when competing to determine whether or not Applejack shows off during her rodeos.

 

In the same vein, neither does the fact that Trixie does performances, in itself, make her a show off. We need to look at how she behaves to make that decision. For the most part, she isn't showing off, but performing. Although it doesn't help that she at one point makes flowers pop out of the air, and then takes them for herself. Any performer trying to work the audience would be expected to give the flowers to someone in the audience. To my mind, at least. Still, on balance, I would tend to agree that Trixie to some extent needs to perform as she does, so I can forgive her behaviour at the beginning of her show (Except for her claims that she is destined to be the "greatest equine who has ever lived" - cough*Celestia*cough - and to perform the "most spectacular feats of magic ever witnessed by pony eyes" - cough*Celestia raising the Sun*cough, but a little hyperbole never hurt anyone. There's also Star Swirl the Bearded, who was probably a lot stronger in magic, Twilight Sparkle and Luna.)

 

Trxie had indirect responsibility, but as you point out, she probably has no more than Spike. Had Trixie not given S&S the dumb idea in the first place they may not have tried to go find an Ursa. But the two colts were inspired not just by wanting to see Trixie do some amazing magic; they also wanted the criticisms raised by Spike to be refuted. Trixie gets a disproportionate share of the blame. And remember: Trixie probably didn't know for sure that Ursas even existed, much less that there were two living in the Everfree Forest, that S&S would go looking for one, and that they would somehow manage to find the cave with the Ursas in it. With the evidence Trixie had at the time of her show, there was a far greater likelihood of a disaster by fireworks mishap, and that chance was also very small.

 

Ah, so we've gone from "absolve all responsibility" to "indirect responsibility"? Groovy. I included Spike to make sure I was being fair, but I never said he and Trixie bore the same amount of responsibility. After all, the situation would not have existed if not for her story. The chain originate with the first mention of the Ursa, and that came from Trixie. Finally, while I agree that Trixie cannot possibly have predicted that her story would have the consequences it did, it does excuse her from the responsibility. My ranking would be 1. Snips and Snails 2. Trixie 3. Spike 4. Rainbow Dash (very tenuously)

 

PS: This is perhaps the wrong thread to continue this debate, which I am enjoying tremendously due to your interesting responses. I would suggest the "What's the appeal in Trixie?" thread instead.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Full Spectrum

[XxBRONY4LIFExX 29]

ok trixie isnt so modest that is probubly her only flaw.But Diamond Tiara is jus a meany snob face

[Quill The Pony. 175]

I love to hate diamond tiara. Trixie isn't as bad, plus her voice is sexy.