S08:E20 - The Washouts

[bigbertha 414]

This episode is fantastic. Most episodes only manage to have either strong comedy or strong drama, but this episode has both. We have great comedy with the members of The Washouts and with Spitfire hamming it up and we have compelling drama with Scootaloo and Rainbow Dash's relationship. I really like how Lightning Dust is portrayed here, keeping with her antagonistic role set up in "Wonderbolts Academy". I was worried the episode would try to redeem her, because this show is really bad at one episode redemptions. Thankfully, that didn't happen and now I want to see her again.

Score: 10/10

[Ganondox 899]

52 minutes ago, Jeric said:

I've seen that tone before. You might wanna step away and chill before you say something that might wind up being the last comment you can make in this thread. Just sayin'.

Yeah sorry, I was pissed off for several reasons. Though I worded it that way because I was making a pun, insane theories about Lightning Dust meaning that she’s insane rather than malevolent. The hilarious and sad comment is the one that was really mean. 

[Truffles 2,033]

I thought this episode was OK. It had a lot of good stuff like the antagonism between Rainbow and Lightning being a complex rivalry rather than a one-note revenge plot. I was pleasantly surprised in fact when Lightning said Rainbow's getting her kicked out of the Wonderbolts was one of the best things that happened to her. (As an aside, I'm a little dubious that she really feels that way, but it doesn't really matter in the context of this episode because in the end she didn't do anything overtly vengeful against Rainbow. Some have argued putting Scootaloo in danger was a secret form of revenge, but somehow I don't think that's the case. If the stunt had succeeded it would have been more of an in-your-face moment for her to throw back at Rainbow than what actually happened.)

Also good was the balance between Rainbow's ego and her caring about Scootaloo. I was a bit troubled at first by her plan to rip up the competing posters - I mean that's a really low-life thing to do to someone who looks up to you. Fortunately she didn't go through with that plan and the only thing we ever see her do is collect them up. (Presumably to throw them out or stash them away somewhere.) Soon after, however, the ego fades and the concern takes over and pretty much carries through the rest of the episode. Particularly noteworthy is the conflict she experiences when she risks pushing Scootaloo away from her by coming down too hard vs.risking a foal she loves getting seriously hurt.

Scootaloo also showed a lot of depth here. She showing she's mature enough to make her own decisions and stand up for what she believes in, even if that includes having to admit to her idol her handicap. She's the best part of this episode.

Finally, the fans Scootaloo is gaining is a great bit of continuity with "Parental Glidance."

 

OTOH, Lightning Dust is now a borderline cardboard cutout of a villain. There's no sympathy for her anymore, there's no insight into what really makes her tick other that the story telling us (instead of showing us) "recklessness is cool." One of the comments on FimFiction summed up my feelings perfectly: She has gone from being a character to nothing more than a plot device. Her blasting off like Team Rocket really sums up that notion because (aside from a few episodes that explore their backgrounds) they for the most part are just there to provide a constant side conflict for Ash and his teammates to deal with and nothing more.

Other issues? The absence of the rest of CMC was particularly jolting. Presumably, their presence might have short-circuited the story if they could convince their friend to forget about joining the Washouts. But I don't think that would necessarily have been the case. It would have shown Scootaloo's resolve - maybe even something her friends never knew about her - had they sided with Rainbow and that still didn't change Scoot's mind. The fact that Rarity and Applejack were present at the show but neither of their little sisters were with them just shows the contrivance that had to be invented to keep them out of the conflict for the reasons stated above.

I didn't like the Spitfire scene. (EDIT: I guess it's just OK. See my later post, though it still comes off as strange.) It was meant to be a funny homage to SNL's motivational speaker skit, but it just came off as weird. Like some others have said, the time could have been spent better developing Lightning Dust's character, perhaps even establishing a relationship with Scootaloo rather than leaving the audience with the impression Lightning doesn't care about anyone else in the slightest. If she has established a relationship, it would have been similar to how Garble had a genuine respect for Spike after the lava belly-flop. He still wound up a jerk by the end of "Dragon Quest" (and the same could have been true for LD by the end of this episode), but at least we learned something interesting about him instead of leaving him completely transparent. (It's unfortunate that was the only time he was remotely interesting. Maybe he'll get another chance in a few weeks?)

Other minor quibbles include the ReMane 5's short-term memory for what Lightning had almost done to them at the end of "Wonderbolts Academy." Maybe the Mane 6 really do fight bugbears every week like "SoL" suggested and they just don't care when somepony as minor as LD almost gets them killed? But it is strange that they were still so excited to be fans of the Washouts after learning who their leader was. Fangirl Twilight sure had no problems finding issue with Flim and Flam just a few episodes before.

Other misc thoughts: It's too bad Smolder couldn't see Scootaloo in person. Maybe she's seen her tutoring around the school off-camera, but I'm still waiting for those two to have their eureka moment when they finally meet face-to-face.

 

Anyway, I still gave this episode a like, even though watching it was analogous to ordering a nice filet or ribeye and having it come out of the kitchen overcooked - palatable, but disappointing. In fact, overcooked is probably the perfect analogy for Lightning Dust's character in this episode.

Also, if I'm comparing Nick Confalone episodes from this season, "The Break-Up, Break Down" > "The Washouts", mostly due to the former hitting all its marks perfectly. Even if the latter has more feels - which is something I'm usually more drawn to - the comedic gold of the former makes it the undeniable winner. (Spike's role doesn't hurt, either - naturally.  )

Edited September 8, 2018 by Truffles
Minor updates for DFC airing

[gingerninja666 487]

22 minutes ago, Truffles said:

No spoiler tags because there's a nice header by Jeric at the top of this topic so unless you've seen the episode steer clear now.

 

I thought this episode was OK. It had a lot of good stuff like the antagonism between Rainbow and Lightning being a complex rivalry rather than a one-note revenge plot. I was pleasantly surprised in fact when Lightning said Rainbow's getting her kicked out of the Wonderbolts was one of the best things that happened to her. (As an aside, I'm a little dubious that she really feels that way, but it doesn't really matter in the context of this episode because in the end she didn't do anything overtly vengeful against Rainbow. Some have argued putting Scootaloo in danger was a secret form of revenge, but somehow I don't think that's the case. If the stunt had succeeded it would have been more of an in-your-face moment for her to throw back at Rainbow than what actually happened.)

Also good was the balance between Rainbow's ego and her caring about Scootaloo. I was a bit troubled at first by her plan to rip up the competing posters - I mean that's a really low-life thing to do to someone who looks up to you. Fortunately she didn't go through with that plan and the only thing we ever see her do is collect them up. (Presumably to throw them out or stash them away somewhere.) Soon after, however, the ego fades and the concern takes over and pretty much carries through the rest of the episode. Particularly noteworthy is the conflict she experiences when she risks pushing Scootaloo away from her by coming down too hard vs.risking a foal she loves getting seriously hurt.

Scootaloo also showed a lot of depth here. She showing she's mature enough to make her own decisions and stand up for what she believes in, even if that includes having to admit to her idol her handicap. She's the best part of this episode.

Finally, the fans Scootaloo is gaining is a great bit of continuity with "Parental Glidance."

 

OTOH, Lightning Dust is now a borderline cardboard cutout of a villain. There's no sympathy for her anymore, there's no insight into what really makes her tick other that the story telling us (instead of showing us) "recklessness is cool." One of the comments on FimFiction summed up my feelings perfectly: She has gone from being a character to nothing more than a plot device. Her blasting off like Team Rocket really sums up that notion because (aside from a few episodes that explore their backgrounds) they for the most part are just there to provide a constant side conflict for Ash and his teammates to deal with and nothing more.

Other issues? The absence of the rest of CMC was particularly jolting. Presumably, their presence might have short-circuited the story if they could convince their friend to forget about joining the Washouts. But I don't think that would necessarily have been the case. It would have shown Scootaloo's resolve - maybe even something her friends never knew about her - had they sided with Rainbow and that still didn't change Scoot's mind. The fact that Rarity and Applejack were present at the show but neither of their little sisters were with them just shows the contrivance that had to be invented to keep them out of the conflict for the reasons stated above.

I didn't like the Spitfire scene. It was meant to be a funny homage to SNL's motivational speaker skit, but it just came off as weird. Like some others have said, the time could have been spent better developing Lightning Dust's character, perhaps even establishing a relationship with Scootaloo rather than leaving the audience with the impression Lightning doesn't care about anyone else in the slightest. If she has established a relationship, it would have been similar to how Garble had a genuine respect for Spike after the lava belly-flop. He still wound up a jerk by the end of "Dragon Quest" (and the same could have been true for LD by the end of this episode), but at least we learned something interesting about him instead of leaving him completely transparent. (It's unfortunate that was the only time he was remotely interesting. Maybe he'll get another chance in a few weeks?)

Other minor quibbles include the ReMane 5's short-term memory for what Lightning had almost done to them at the end of "Wonderbolts Academy." Maybe the Mane 6 really do fight bugbears every week like "SoL" suggested and they just don't care when somepony as minor as LD almost gets them killed? But it is strange that they were still so excited to be fans of the Washouts after learning who their leader was. Fangirl Twilight sure had no problems finding issue with Flim and Flam just a few episodes before.

Other misc thoughts: It's too bad Smolder couldn't see Scootaloo in person. Maybe she's seen her tutoring around the school off-camera, but I'm still waiting for those two to have their eureka moment when they finally meet face-to-face.

 

Anyway, I still gave this episode a like, even though watching it was analogous to ordering a nice filet or ribeye and having it come out of the kitchen overcooked - palatable, but disappointing. In fact, overcooked is probably the perfect analogy for Lightning Dust's character in this episode.

Also, if I'm comparing Nick Confalone episodes from this season, "The Break-Up, Break Down" > "The Washouts", mostly due to the former hitting all its marks perfectly. Even if the latter has more feels - which is something I'm usually more drawn to - the comedic gold of the former makes it the undeniable winner. (Spike's role doesn't hurt, either - naturally.  )

I thought the entire Washouts show DID show us that recklessness is cool. Rainbow Dash thought their ridiculous stunts were awesome, and then we see that Rolling Thunder was hurt by it, which none of the Washouts seemed to care all that much about.

[PacificGreen 1,163]

On 8/18/2018 at 6:32 PM, ShootingStar159 said:

  Hide contents

So, just so we’re clear, Scootaloo can’t travel to another country with only her two friends, even though it’s completely safe and friendly, but if she wants to launch herself with a rocket, there’s nothing anyone can do to stop her? I hope lawyers are well paid in Equestria because the laws there make no sense whatsoever.

 

Well, as didactic and relatable as this show is, at the end it's still a cartoon about colorful, magical ponies making friends, so weird logic like that personally doesn't bother me too much. Probably not the best response, I know, but still. XD

Will post my thoughts on the episode later.

[Cwanky 17,579]

Today Scootaloo learns that:

 

[Kind Claw 407]

The face you make when you eavesdrop on you own fan club 

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

15 hours ago, Kind Claw said:

The face you make when you eavesdrop on you own fan club 

All jokes aside, the ending of this episode that mirrors the opening is one of the most touching moments in the show so far.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Theanimationfanatic

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

Honestly, if the rest of Season 8 is even half as good as this episode, we're in for a treat.

[DonMaguz 1,023]

What a great episode!

Scootaloo is amazing at all times, her new interest about the wilder stunt troupe than the Wonderbolts, her excitement on watching the Washouts show and her nervousness about meeting them afterwards. Then her conflict with Dash and how she steps up in rebellion to become a Washout herself only to find out they're not what she thought they were (or at least Lightning Dust is not).

Rainbow Dash is not too far back from Scoots in this one, her insecurities turned to jealousy and then her excitement about the Washouts stunts were pure gold. Her attempt to guide Scootaloo with Spitfire's help is very short sighted and then having Scootaloo's feelings in no consideration to toss away her Washouts memorabilia just pushes Scoots into open rebellion. Then, the way she put aside her insecurities to tell Scootaloo about her worries and stepping aside so Scoots could make up her mind was wonderful. Scootaloo may had still got hurt at the stunt, but had Dash kept pulling Scootaloo back, she could've lost Scoots' trust in her.

Lightning Dust's return was great, I'm glad she didn't just lost her dream, she went on making the best out of her situation with the help of other ex-Bolts. She's back and more reckless than before, which wouldn't be so bad if she had any consideration for a youngster like Scootaloo.

Rolling Thunder and Short Fuse were amusing enough, although I couldn't understand half of what Short Fuse yelled...

Although I liked Dash's decision to use Spitfire's help, I didn't like one bit Spitfire's approach. It seems like she had this learned up speech to tell any kid so they get scared and it was disgusting in my opinion.

I missed Sweetie Belle and Apple Bloom in this one, which I had not until they chose for AJ to say out loud "looks like all of Ponyville's here... except for Rainbow Dash", NO AJ!!! Her best friends are not there! Seriously, they're Scootaloo's closest ponies alongside Rainbow Dash. They should have either showed SB and AB there or just cut that line off the script, it felt wrong.

Overall, The Washouts is an amazing episode and claims a spot in my top 3 episodes of S8.

Up until the season hiatus, this was on its way to become my least favorite season but after recent few episodes I think it's safe to say that it won't get there anytime soon. Here's so the last 6 episodes of the season continue the good run! 

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

1 minute ago, DonMaguz said:

What a great episode!

Scootaloo is amazing at all times, her new interest about the wilder stunt troupe than the Wonderbolts, her excitement on watching the Washouts show and her nervousness about meeting them afterwards. Then her conflict with Dash and how she steps up in rebellion to become a Washout herself only to find out they're not what she thought they were (or at least Lightning Dust is not).

Rainbow Dash is not too far back from Scoots in this one, her insecurities turned to jealousy and then her excitement about the Washouts stunts were pure gold. Her attempt to guide Scootaloo with Spitfire's help is very short sighted and then having Scootaloo's feelings in no consideration to toss away her Washouts memorabilia just pushes Scoots into open rebellion. Then, the way she put aside her insecurities to tell Scootaloo about her worries and stepping aside so Scoots could make up her mind was wonderful. Scootaloo may had still got hurt at the stunt, but had Dash kept pulling Scootaloo back, she could've lost Scoots' trust in her.

Lightning Dust's return was great, I'm glad she didn't just lost her dream, she went on making the best out of her situation with the help of other ex-Bolts. She's back and more reckless than before, which wouldn't be so bad if she had any consideration for a youngster like Scootaloo.

Rolling Thunder and Short Fuse were amusing enough, although I couldn't understand half of what Short Fuse yelled...

Although I liked Dash's decision to use Spitfire's help, I didn't like one bit Spitfire's approach. It seems like she had this learned up speech to tell any kid so they get scared and it was disgusting in my opinion.

I missed Sweetie Belle and Apple Bloom in this one, which I had not until they chose for AJ to say out loud "looks like all of Ponyville's here... except for Rainbow Dash", NO AJ!!! Her best friends are not there! Seriously, they're Scootaloo's closest ponies alongside Rainbow Dash. They should have either showed SB and AB there or just cut that line off the script, it felt wrong.

Overall, The Washouts is an amazing episode and claims a spot in my top 3 episodes of S8.

Up until the season hiatus, this was on its way to become my least favorite season but after recent few episodes I think it's safe to say that it won't get there anytime soon. Here's so the last 6 episodes of the season continue the good run! 

For all of the lackluster and downright terrible episodes of Season 8, there have been plenty of gems. Including "Surf and/or Turf", "Horse Play", "The Break-Up Breakdown", "Molt Down", "The Hearth's Warming Club", "On The Road To Friendship", and This. 

That's certainly a better track record then Season 3 or 1, tbh.

[Megas 27,624]

The early start of the season was pretty fucking weak, just feeling really lackluster and underwhelming despite some sweet spots. But these last few episodes have really improved it imo, putting it well above S6, maybe even over S2 and S4

7 minutes ago, DonMaguz said:

Although I liked Dash's decision to use Spitfire's help, I didn't like one bit Spitfire's approach. It seems like she had this learned up speech to tell any kid so they get scared and it was disgusting in my opinion

I actually think It's actually a great nod to the comics(which Nick Confalone actually references from time to time), where it's established that Spitfire is terrible with teaching children

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by This Whomps

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

5 minutes ago, This Whomps said:

The early start of the season was pretty fucking weak, just feeling really lackluster and underwhelming despite some sweet spots. But these last few episodes have really improved it imo, putting it well above S6, maybe even over S2 and S4

I actually think It's actually a great nod to the comics(which Nick Confalone actually references from time to time), where it's established that Spitfire is terrible with teaching children

 

I'd still say that Seasons 7 and 6 are above 8, currently. 

[Truffles 2,033]

21 hours ago, gingerninja666 said:

I thought the entire Washouts show DID show us that recklessness is cool. Rainbow Dash thought their ridiculous stunts were awesome, and then we see that Rolling Thunder was hurt by it, which none of the Washouts seemed to care all that much about.

Touche! I had to rewatch the episode - I forgot Rainbow became a reluctant fan of them for a while until Scootaloo was being threatened with danger. I still think Lightning Dust is less of a character than she was in her initial appearance, however. I was able to connect with her back then, but here she's pretty much all bad. Even her statement about not wanting to hurt other ponies (besides the team members) turned out to be a lie after she refused to let Scootaloo back out of the stunt once Scoots learned it had never been tested..

16 hours ago, Kind Claw said:

The face you make when you eavesdrop on you own fan club 

LOL. Rainbow was inspired to make that face from her experience with Twilight:

Speaking of that eavesdropping scene, Nick Confalone seems to be starting a running gag of "eavesdropping is wrong" and "that sounded worse than it is" - he did the same thing with Big Mac! XD

[PacificGreen 1,163]

So here are my thoughts on the episode.

I was pretty pleasantly surprised with how this turned out. It had a lot of similarities to Friendship University (a rival of sorts is taking attention away from a mane cast member, they go to investigate, have some jealousy moments, but eventually it works out for them in the end) but it overall is a very different episode.

So yeah, Lightning Dust returned. I don't think I need to say much there, we were all wondering when she'd be back.

I do like that the episode makes Dash admit that she might be feeling a bit jealous, but at the same time it's clear she shows concern for Scoots. The episode did seem to teeter-totter a bit between those two sides of the conflict, but I think it was still handled pretty well, and RD learns to let Scootaloo make her own decisions about whom she chooses to follow.

The little twist about Scootaloo being irritated by Rainbow Dash's persistence because of her inability to fly also made things pretty interesting. I think a lot of fans were hoping they'd directly address her disability again, and it also served as a small slice of humble pie for RD to round out the lesson.

I also like that they didn't make the Washouts outright villainous or scandalous (like the Flim Flam bros in FU), and actually had them pull some pretty admirable stunts as part of their job, but still made them with reckless attitudes. It made them seem a bit more 3-dimensional, and consequently more likable, than some of the other villains we've had. Twilight buying a poster of them was also pretty funny. XD

Minor nitpick, but the climax was pretty much a Dash Ex-Machina (though her line about "that doesn't mean I can't swoop in and save you" was pretty awesome).

I kinda wish we got more screentime with Rolling Thunder (was that an Aussie accent I heard?!) and Short Fuse, but I think that would've detracted from the main story, so it was probably for the best.

[Will Guide 21,360]

I wouldn't be surprised if in the end, Lightning Dust lands wherever Team Rocket usually blasts off to. 

[Will Guide 21,360]

2 hours ago, Truffles said:

Touche! I had to rewatch the episode - I forgot Rainbow became a reluctant fan of them for a while until Scootaloo was being threatened with danger. I still think Lightning Dust is less of a character than she was in her initial appearance, however. I was able to connect with her back then, but here she's pretty much all bad. Even her statement about not wanting to hurt other ponies (besides the team members) turned out to be a lie after she refused to let Scootaloo back out of the stunt once Scoots learned it had never been tested..

LOL. Rainbow was inspired to make that face from her experience with Twilight:

Speaking of that eavesdropping scene, Nick Confalone seems to be starting a running gag of "eavesdropping is wrong" and "that sounded worse than it is" - he did the same thing with Big Mac! XD

Actually, Rainbow Dash's face in peeking into the club arguably was first made in S4's "Daring Don't" when Daring Do "Proposed" to her enemy Ahuizotl pause at 1:34

 

 

Look: (By the way, the images sources had them at different sizes and I can't find a way to make them the same size so take them as is)

So no, I argue that clubhouse eavesdroping is more a callback to S4's Daring Don't. Not S5's Cutie Re-Mark. Besides the timeline with Twilight acting werid around Young Dashie was overwritten by Twilight convincing Starlight to stop, not once interacting with Dashie, so no. Sorry to disagree, but your conclusion is wrong. Not a bad thing, but not what the show runners intended.

[Sig Hoovestrong 838]

Scootaloo became a rebel. Oh some grow up so fast. :3

[The Nth Doctor 662]

This was a fun episode

Spoiler

It was nice seeing Dashie worry about Scootaloo, but not aggressively interfere in her life (aside from the near-death save)

Also, why is Spitfire a Ruby from Steven Universe now?

 

[Hierok 11,831]

7 hours ago, Will Guide said:

I wouldn't be surprised if in the end, Lightning Dust lands wherever Team Rocket usually blasts off to. 

If she said 'I'm blasting off again!', this episode would be the best of the season. XD

13 hours ago, DonMaguz said:

Although I liked Dash's decision to use Spitfire's help, I didn't like one bit Spitfire's approach. It seems like she had this learned up speech to tell any kid so they get scared and it was disgusting in my opinion.

Yeah, it seemed a bit over the top to the point I couldn't take her seriously anymore. I thought she could handle this kind of situations better, and not screaming in someones face. 

[KatonRyu 1,033]

I really liked this episode. While Lightning Dust was just a bit too one-dimensional at times, and Spitfire wasn't great at handling the situation, I think this episode really shows just how much Rainbow Dash cares about Scootaloo and her safety and how much she's looking out for her. I also think it's great that Rainbow Dash immediately realized she'd been too focused on herself when Scootaloo reminded her that she couldn't fly. All in all, one of the best episodes of the season IMO.

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,594]

If any episode shows how much Rainbow Dash has grown and matured throughout the course of the show, it's this one.

[Compeador 101]

I give 6.5/10

A bit better than other S8 eps, probably this time who forgets the whole character development is Scootaloo since she's a kid after all, right?

I must point at some terrible parts, especially how the hell Scootaloo would forget who is Lightning Dust? She already knows who's she and we know that in Parental Glideance, why couldn't season 8 stopping nerf characters?

Despite the judgement, yeah, there're still goods parts, Spit Fire seems always been good and funny  I love the part when she shouts to Scootaloo XD Also AJ's faces when she says Apple Bloom likes Banana thing lmao

The Lightning Dust, yeah, she's back again, she is more asshole than I thought when she shows in Wonderbolt Academy, but that's her personality tho, just glad Mane 6 didn't kick her out of Ponyvile after she almost murdered Scootaloo

[Dark Qiviut 22,396]

1 hour ago, Compeador said:

I must point at some terrible parts, especially how the hell Scootaloo would forget who is Lightning Dust? She already knows who's she and we know that in Parental Glideance, why couldn't season 8 stopping nerf characters?

Scootaloo's characterization and continuity weren't ignored in the slightest. Back in PG, Scootaloo portrayed Dust as Dash's competitor in the Academy to her parents instead of a teammate, implicating she didn't know much about what truly happened there. TW ran with it, and being motivated partially on the belief that the Washouts will give pegasi like her (who can't fly) an avenue to show off their talents over the Wonderbolts adds more to the story.

[Compeador 101]

6 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Scootaloo's characterization and continuity weren't ignored in the slightest. Back in PG, Scootaloo portrayed Dust as Dash's competitor in the Academy to her parents instead of a teammate, implicating she didn't know much about what truly happened there. TW ran with it, and being motivated partially on the belief that the Washouts will give pegasi like her (who can't fly) an avenue to show off their talents over the Wonderbolts adds more to the story.

 

Don't you think Scootaloo is even way too rude to RD in this episode? Do you really think she'll grievously insult the Wonderbolts? I don't know what you think, but I don't think she will, based on the past development of her.
Also, there's nothing wrong that Scootaloo presented Lightning Dust is RD's competitor, because they're indeed competing for the leader position, perhaps Scootallo doesn't know the whole story and every detail (although I think she'll ask every detail), but you can't just be so sure Scootaloo don't know what truly happened there just by that.