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Twiliscael

Actual Intelligent Debate Regarding Your Opinions on the Twilicorn.

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Hello forumites. Here is my thread for having an actual, real debate about your opinions on the Twilicorn. I'm tired of all of the the "ZOMG ITZ SUCH A GOOD IDEA!!!1! I CANT WAIT!" and various pointless banter that some people try to pass along as arguments and points to back themselves up. Only post here if you're up for intelligent discussion, willing to be challenged by others, and remain respectful.

 

My view? I think that the idea is stupid. Such a drastic change was hardly explained and rushed, and it honestly felt like it came out of nowhere. Celestia claims that this whole time she had been preparing Twilight to become an alicorn, but Lauren Faust, the creator of the character, said that becoming an alicorn was the farthest thing from what she had planned for Twilight. Twilight being an alicorn is a change forced upon DHX by Hasbro, and we know that. They have done this before, but not something as potentially show-altering as this. It has the premise to debase everything the show has previously been about, which was Twilight's studies as a student and her unbreakable friendships with her friends. Not to mention that it breaks the triple-duo of unicorns, pegasi, and earth ponies we had, which does bother me a bit. Besides this, I do believe that this will make Twilight a Mary-Sue, and believe me when I say I (and most people) dislike Mary-Sues. I believe that this was a silly choice of Hasbro's to force, and that DHX carried it out pretty poorly. It came out of the blue, wasn't explained, then worst of all, they tried to justify it by making Twilight claim that "Everything's going to be ok!" I don't think so.

 

Not to mention that she just doesn't look good as a princess in my opinion. Her wings are HUGE, and the fold to be the same size as Rainbow Dash's, which makes no sense to me. Also, they were animated onto the character evidently later on due to the fact that they seem to rest on top of Twilight and bounce around awkwardly rather than with her.

 

I do realize that most of this is opinion (it is MY view, isn't it?) but in mine, it's stupid. I can't see the show going on at the same quality it was on during season 1 or 2 with a change this drastic, and I fear for the 4th season. If you want me to explain any of these points in further detail just let me know.

 

Edit removed because I did sound loud a fatuous a-hole.

Edited by Twiliscael

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NO> IS STPID.

 

Seriousness, yea. The idea is stupid. I have decided to not judge it too much until season 4. So, I'm indifferent currently.

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There is one major problem I have with Twilight as an alicorn: I can't relate to her anymore. When she was a sarcastic, introverted bookworm, I could relate to her problems, see bits of myself in her. When she lost her sarcastic side in season 2, I started liking her a little less because the connection was weaker. Now that she's a princess, I can't really see myself connecting with her at all.

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Well at first I thought it would be okay but the actual execution was terrible and felt incredibly rushed. I don't understand why Celestia would grant such a gift on anypony, even her "most faithful student" as Alicorns are essentially all royalty and some such as Celestia may even be considered demi-gods by the Equestrian people. To elevate Twilight to such a position for solving a single problem, and a rushed and undeveloped one at that (unlike taking down Discord or saving Equestria/the Crystal Empire itself from destruction) seems very unnatural and forced.

 

In addition, everytime I think about Twilicorn's "coronation" it feels like an ending to me. I don't feel as if the Mane 6 and herself are equals anymore, and as Twilight has reached something of a dead end in her studies there isn't an awful lo for her to do. In the end I just hope the writers can carry it through to success.

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Okay, this is has gone long enough. Besides, this really should end a little faster. I just say that we wait until Season 4, to see how this Twilicorn thing will go.

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Alright.

 

     I originally wasn't a fan of Alicorn Twilight. In fact, I thought it was a load of BS at first. But, as time went on, I gave it some more thought. I had an open mind; afterall, that's what I had when I decided to watch MLP:FIM for the first time. I mean, we all thought. or I'm sure most of us thought that MLP was a show for little girls the first time we watched it. But after we did, we realized how great of a show it was. I decided to give the prospect of Alicorn Twilight the benefit of the doubt, and would wait to see what they did with it and how it was executed before bitching about it.

 

     I'll admit, the episode could have been done a lot better, but overall I liked it. I liked how they saved Twilight becoming an Alicorn for the very end. Honestly, I felt like the whole Twilicorn thing would have gone a lot better and smoother if it hadn't been spoiled a few months ago with the whole "Season 4 bad news" thing. I had faith in the writers, and I knew they'd be able to make it work. I can't wait for season 4 and what they're going to do with alicorn Twilight.

 

     Overall, I support Alicorn Twilight and am looking to Season 4 with her in it.

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Well ok then, I'll just say it now that I actually quite liked the finale, especially after rewatching and stuff. As for Alicorn Twilight I don't directly have any problems with it, I mean I don't like totally find it the greatest idea either, but I certainly don't think its like the end of Twilight or anything, i still like Twilight, shes still my 2nd favorite pony, and things in S4 will have to change A WHOLE LOT for me to dislike her.

 

There is upsides to it though, I mean we can get episodes where Twilight isn't just in Ponyville all the time waiting for Celestias orders or something, and she takes her own initiative to do things in other places. I still think the majority of the show will take place in Ponyville, but it opens that gate.

 

It also shows that all the stuff that happened the past 2 seasons meant something, and Twilight in my opinion has had the most development, further shown by her Princesshood.  From freaking out about small things (Lesson Zero) To more recently where she can remain calm and collective (Games Ponies play) From being a novice with magic, to knowing all kinds of complex spells. From knowing nothing or caring nothing about friendship, to becoming one of the most knowledgeable ponies on the subject. And then becoming a Princess because of all the growth shes shown, And even surpassing the skills of one of the most powerful Unicorns of Equestrian History Starswirl the bearded by learning about Friendship.(Or atleast being close to as powerful and knowledgeable)

 

Shes still the book nerd adorkable Twilight we all know and love, but shes grown alot from her arrival to ponyville to now.

 

I remain optimistic and refuse to let my pessimistic self interfer until the show goes to totally crap. As of now I still have utmost faith in the writers to explore the opportunities of Princess Twilight(as long as they keep her for S4.) And keep this show as my favorite cartoon, heck my favorite show really.

 

Honestly as much as I love this show, the show would have to fall of a massive 100 cliff in quality for me to really hate it or anything :P. I guess I'm just more easily satisfied and less critical then others, but thats cool with me.

 

Anyways, I'm staying optimistic, I'm excited for and have high hopes for S4 and what it'll bring now.

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I was hoping we would get a better perspective on Alicorn Twilight in the season finale, unfortunately it wasn't much (TOO MUCH SINGING). We'll have to wait for Season 4.

 

I am not opposed to Alicorn Twilight, though I do not support it either. Though if it was me, I wouldn't have made the call into turning her into an Alicorn. I tolerate it, I don't see too much of a threat unless Hasbro makes it a habit of making all the Mane Six Alicorns. It isn't much to fret about.

 

I will wait and see once Season 4 starts back up to formulate a better opinion, for now, neutral.

Edited by DeltaTangent

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I dislike it because it seems to unbalance the Mane Six and cement Twilight as more important than her friends in the eyes of the show. As for potential storylines, I can think of great ideas they could do with it and poor ones, and I'm just waiting to see what happens. My issue with it stands though.

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This idea was the worst one that has ever been introduced to the show not because the idea of her eventually, eventually being the key word here becoming an alicorn was a bad one but because it is way too soon and the abrupt nature of this along with other factors such as the lackluster explanation from Celestia in the season 3 finale put Twilight dangerously close to Mary Sue territory. I am not saying this can't still work, if Hasbro backs off and lets the writers do their job in season 4 I have full confidence that it will work but even if this works there is nothing that will ever completely get rid of the feeling of abruptness from this though much of it can be smoothed over with good writing.

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I would prefer that Twilight be the same pony that she always has been. I can live with her being an alicorn if she's still Twilight inside, with all her habits, going by the book, and even the occasional meltdown. I want her to live in Ponyville and I don't want her friends and Spike bowing to her. "C'mon, guys, you don't have to bow down to me. I'm still Twilight." would work. I'd like her to tell the ponies of Ponyville the same. And I'd like her to take a cue from Rainbow Dash: If she's going on a picnic or something like that with her friends, and Celestia calls her for some royal duty, she'd say "Sorry, Princess, but I've got plans."

 

That's my ideal alicorn Twilight. I guess we'll find out what Hasbro's is in the fall.

Edited by PonyHag1

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It's a little disingenuous of you to say in the thread title that you want intelligent debate, and then go on in your post to say that anyone who disagrees with you is making up shit and otherwise heap scorn.

Anyway, I'm going to try to separate my feelings about Alicorn Twilight from my feelings about the episode. That is, I believe Alicorn Twilight is a natural step in her growth as a character. From the beginning, we've seen she's special. Her whole life's been full of strange and wonderful surprises, from her initial burst of magical potency when she received her cutie mark--thanks to the help of Rainbow Dash's Sonic Rainboom, connecting the Mane Six together with the Elements of Harmony from the start--all throughout everything she's done in Ponyville. It really has been leading up to this, I feel.

The question, of course, is what will happen with the dynamics between her and her friends? That's something I think gives the show writers a lot of opportunities to work with. I like to think they can do something good with it so long as they're given the proper funding they need and producers aren't refusing to allow them to rewrite scripts, the way some things were done with season three.

So do I think it's a good thing? Yes. Yes I do. Do I think it was sold well to us with the finale? Absolutely not. If it had been we wouldn't have the amount of outrage we're experiencing as a fandom.

I feel too, though, like we should be grateful we're getting a fourth season at all. We wouldn't have without the interest we poured into the show and into the toy line and so on. It would have ended with Alicorn Twilight, but now we get to see it move on and show us what would happen next.

I won't deny a little concern that it could be done poorly. I do share some of those concerns. I'm a little anxious about it. But rather than panicking or becoming hateful or spiteful, and as a result heaping scorn upon Hasbro, I prefer to keep my interest up until I'm shown there's no reason to stay interested. It is our interest that kept this show from ending with season three. It is our strong desire for more pony that resulted in Season Four even existing to begin with. We need to keep that interest up if we want the show to stay alive.

And I, for one, think there's far more good potential with Alicorn Twilight than bad.

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I feel too, though, like we should be grateful we're getting a fourth season at all. We wouldn't have without the interest we poured into the show and into the toy line and so on. It would have ended with Alicorn Twilight, but now we get to see it move on and show us what would happen next.

Whether I will ultimately be grateful for a 4th season is going to depend on whether or not this works as I would rather a good series end while it is still good rather than go on a path of self destruction as we have seen from far too many good shows. If this does work I will of course look forward to more episodes, but I have to tell you this is going to be a long wait for me and I am sure many others.

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As an idea in general, it makes sense for Twilight. Since passing her entrance exam, Celestia entrusted Twilight under her tutelage. She's been Celestia's protégé, and when Twilight started focusing on her studies more than sharing her time with friends, she thrusted Twilight into Ponyville so she can grow into a much more confident and noble character. Although she has grown significantly since her debut in the pilot, she still has a bit of growing pains to do. But when she's learned to control her issues and temper, then she would be ready to be an alicorn princess (with the potential of succeeding Celestia, if going according to Lauren Faust's initial plans revealed in the Brony Documentary).

 

However, that would be some time from now, at least one or two seasons more. Having Twilight be an alicorn in last season's finale made little sense objectively. Two of my biggest reasons for going against it (further explained here) are the following:

  1. It had no continuous momentum. Following The Crystal Empire, Part 2, there was nothing to hint this development. If it was clued throughout the season and given more time behind the scenes, then the concept would've made more sense.
  2. Hasbro rushed the concept in way too soon in order to sell toys. Hasbro got involved several times before, but they were smaller and not as noticeable, the lone exception being Princess Cadance and Shining Armor for A Canterlot Wedding (the same problem as the Twilicorn: dropping in unannounced, but handled by DHX much better). This is the first time where this meddling is so glaringly obvious.

Despite the horrid concept, it gave DHX the opportunity to make it work, but it had to be done carefully and with no glaring issues. The reason made sense, but the path sucked. Her transformation was slapped in the finale as an afterthought, and the whole plot from beginning to end was way too condensed for it to make legitimate sense. Kyronea said this perfectly: If it was handled with more proper care, then this controversy wouldn't be stirring as long as it currently is. It was treated as a series finale, and you can see this by the info-cramming and poor overall direction.

 

However, despite the horrid concept and lesser poor execution of the Twilicorn, season four opens up the opportunity to give it another chance. Like I wrote in my season three review, if the series was over, then Twilight's reputation as a potentially fantastic character is permanently soiled. With the bigger budget and full twenty-six episodes, DHX has the chance to correct this mistake and hopefully make the Twilicorn concept work in the canon.

 

Whether Hasbro will give them this creative leverage or not, though, is uncertain. We'll have to wait for the season premiere for that.

Edited by Dark Qiviut

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Lauren Faust, the creator of the character, said that becoming an alicorn was the farthest thing from what she had planned for Twilight.

 

Can you cite your source on this?

 

 

Twilight being an alicorn is a change forced upon DHX by Hasbro, and we know that.

 

Again, can you cite your source on this?

 

 

There is one major problem I have with Twilight as an alicorn: I can't relate to her anymore. When she was a sarcastic, introverted bookworm, I could relate to her problems, see bits of myself in her. When she lost her sarcastic side in season 2, I started liking her a little less because the connection was weaker. Now that she's a princess, I can't really see myself connecting with her at all.

 

Valid. I'll even brohoof that. 

 

That said, I am optimistic about alicorn Twilight, and I think she looks beautiful with wings.

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Can you cite your source on this?

 

 

 

Again, can you cite your source on this?

It's from her Twitter, as for Lauren's views on the Twilicorn.

There were a few more, I just don't want to dig anymore. If this isn't sufficient enough, I suppose I could dig through for you.

f7a.png

 

Also, the fact that Hasbro forced alicorn Twilight onto DHX is just a common fact among the fandom by now. If you don't believe me I suppose I could find some credible source of information.

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It's from her Twitter, as for Lauren's views on the Twilicorn. There were a few more, I just don't want to dig anymore. If this isn't sufficient enough, I suppose I could dig through for you.

 

I've seen those posts before and all they tell me as that Laruen had plans for Twilight and they are irrelevant now. Irrelevant because she no longer works on the show. We can't infer that this means she is against alicorn Twilight. I also saw one more Twitter post where she said she just couldn't comment on the alicorn thing. But I don't think this is because she's against alicorn Twilight, I think this is because she quite simply does not watch the show, and hasn't since season 2 ended (if you need the youtube interview where she says that I can link that for you). I wont make you dig for any more of her Twitter posts, but if you can remember what she said verbatim in another Twitter post where she does seem to be earnestly against Twilight being an alicorn, then I'll accept that.

 

But even if you can prove that Lauren is against Twilight being an alicorn, that still doesn't do much in making me reverse my position. FiM was Laruen's vision sure enough, but she is not the only creator of FiM.

 

 

Also, the fact that Hasbro forced alicorn Twilight onto DHX is just a common fact among the fandom by now. If you don't believe me I suppose I could find some credible source of information.

 

Not that this is terribly important to me, but yeah, if you want me to believe that then I'm going to have to see something a bit more tangible. Beacuse I'm a member of the fandom too, and I don't think thats a fact.

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I haven't even watched the last five episodes, so perhaps I'm not the most sourced on this. However, even the theory of the "Twilicorn" irks me.

 

Twilight was supposed to be special. She had the most raw and refined talent of any unicorn in Equestria at the time, demonstrated multiple times, but by transforming her into an alicorn she lost all of her actual talent. Alicorns have enhanced magic, as we know, and by changing her into one, she's really nothing unique or talented anymore; she's just another alicorn.

 

In addition, relating to her is a lot harder, as I believe someone previously mentioned. I LOVED Season One Twilight. She was the sarcastic yet lovable "egghead". When S2 rolled around, however, Twilight was still cute, though she sort of lost her edge; she became more "cutesy" a lot of the time and a lot less of her more "grumpy", logical side. Now that she's a princess, I feel like she's going to become much more like Luna and Celestia, neither of whome I like; I find them irritaing and a little bossy, and I'd hate to see a character as good as Twi to go out like that. Again, I haven't seen the episode; maybe I'm wrong.

 

The fact that over one or two episodes she became an alicorn is a bit of a shock too. As I said in another thread, I feel like they just pulled an idea outta a hat and went with that, because it's just a poor idea on the whole, and it being rushed must have made it just that much worse.

 

Anyways, I'll have to watch the episodes and post again later. In theory, though, not loving the idea. It's more than just slapping a pair of wings on her; this is a major change. If she's a princess she's probably not going to be able to have a major role anymore, since she'll most likely be in Canterlot.

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As you have stated it was not originally a part of the show. Hasbro did it to boost sales for upcoming toylines. We know that. When Lauren Faust developed the show there were only two Alicorns. Celestia and Luna. Cadence was made an Alicorn at Hasbro's request too. It wasn't an issue because we really didn't know Cadence for it to be a problem. After they made Cadence an Alicorn they pushed the Royal Canterlot wedding set really hard for the stores to sell. They made quite a bit off it. But if they are going to direct the shows writers to change the story around to profit toy sales the quality of the show is going to drop.

 

We are quick to say we don't like it, but what about the target demographic? My 5 year old niece doesn't like Alicorn Twilight. She even told me "Now Rarity is only Unicorn".

 

I personally don't think it will be permanent. I really don't like the idea of Twilight being a princess because as many others have said now you just cant relate to her anymore. Its like the Disney Princess line. Girls do not see themselves in the princesses they want to be the princesses. Small difference there. And it really steers away from the gender neutral environment this show had before.

 

I do think i can grow to like the idea if they can make it interesting. But personally i think Twilight will have some sort of realization that she doesn't want to be a princess and renounce her title. It was the magic of friendship that made her a princess it will be the magic of friendship that will make her realize its not what she really wants.

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I approve the Alicorn movement 101%

 

The only physical change is her wings and i don't see anything wrong with them. I don't think there's a justified reason to say that shes changed as a pony (just yet) since becoming an Alicorn because we've seen her in that form for about 3 minutes. People need to give it more time before they can get away with saying it's going to kill the series.

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Aside from the issue of change in the storyline which I've spoken about before (how it upsets the Ponyville status quo) I think my main issue is that it puts her in a different place in life from her friends, and really from the rest of us.  Instead of somepony who is still struggling to fulfill their potential and their destiny, she is now somepony who has already reached their potential, and that's not as easy to relate to.  Being a nerdy bookworm I can get.  Being a princess?  Not so much. 

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The only physical change is her wings and i don't see anything wrong with them. I don't think there's a justified reason to say that shes changed as a pony (just yet) since becoming an Alicorn because we've seen her in that form for about 3 minutes. People need to give it more time before they can get away with saying it's going to kill the series.

There's a lot wrong if all that changes from Twilight is just her wings. In the canon, alicorns and princesses mean more than merely being titles. They carry much more rooted symbolism. Alicorns represent a more rooted, deeper responsibility of both power and responsibilities to manage it. Princesses in the canon symbolize royalty, integrity, responsibility, and respect: Everything they do can put the fate of others on their shoulders.

 

Like I wrote in my editorial, if Twilight doesn't change besides "ponyvolving" to an alicorn, then the Twilicorn concept is useless. She devolves from a character to a digital 1080p commercial within the show. And in a show where entertainment (with very clever disguises of smaller toys) is used to promote the product rather than the other way around, it becomes insulting. She needs a more important, deeper purpose in the canon than that — physically, emotionally, psychologically — in order for her transformation make genuine sense.

 

"Giving it a chance" doesn't work, either. The final five minutes of the episode offered a first impression of the Twilicorn, and that's more than enough time to your audience. It wasn't a good first impression from an objective quality perspective for the aforementioned reasons I explained in the first page. First impressions carry more weight because it creates an overall mental image of what you see down the line. If her first impression was objectively good, this controversy would've ended by now.

Edited by Dark Qiviut

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There's a lot wrong if all that changes from Twilight is just her wings. In the canon, alicorns and princesses mean more than merely being titles. They carry much more rooted symbolism. Alicorns represent a more rooted, deeper responsibility of both power and responsibilities to manage it. Princesses in the canon symbolize royalty, integrity, responsibility, and respect: Everything they do can put the fate of others on their shoulders.

 

Like I wrote in my editorial, if Twilight doesn't change besides "ponyvolving" to an alicorn, then the Twilicorn concept is useless. She devolves from a character to a digital 1080p commercial within the show. And in a show where entertainment (with very clever disguises of smaller toys) is used to promote the product rather than the other way around, it becomes insulting. She needs a more important, deeper purpose in the canon than that — physically, emotionally, psychologically — in order for her transformation make genuine sense.

 

"Giving it a chance" doesn't work, either. The final five minutes of the episode offered a first impression of the Twilicorn, and that's more than enough time to your audience. It wasn't a good first impression from an objective quality perspective for the aforementioned reasons I explained in the first page. First impressions carry more weight because it creates an overall mental image of what you see down the line. If her first impression was objectively good, this controversy would've ended by now.

10 points to Griffindor.

 

I gave the writers an entire 13 episodes a chance, and they've proven that this is the same as the rest of season 3; poorly thought-out and poorly executed. People say that Twilight will remain the same character? If there is absolutely no change, then this change is a complete insult. I'd rather see her change from this experience than stay static, because that just shows lazy writing and proves that this episode was completely a 22 minute commercial for the toy. 

 

Another problem I have with the alicorn thing? Her special talent, the thing that defined her as a pony, was her superb abilities in magic as a unicorn. She was a exceptionally talented as a unicorn, bur becoming an alicorn defeats this purpose because alicorns are simply more magically talented. She traded being one of the (if not the) best unicorns in Equestria to becoming a standard alicorn with whatever magic that that entails.

Edited by Twiliscael

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I only have one thing to say in regards of Twilight being a alicorn: the idea itself is fine, but why I hate the fact that she is one was the entire presentation of how she obtained that status!

 

I know that a lot of other people hate the idea, I kind of do but not to an extreme extent. the fact that she is alicorn and princess won't have a direct impact on the overall story-line. each princess seems to be  princess of their own talent. Celestia and Luna are in charge of the sun and moon, Cadance is the princess of love. so it would make sense that twilight would be the princess of friendship. this fact will probably result in the event of her staying in ponyville and just studying different things and being with her friends. also she is the main character of the six main characters if you really think about it. so it would make sense that something like this would happen in her favor.

 

These are the reasons i'm ok with it.

 

Why I am not a fan of it stretches a bit longer. first of all, the delivery sucked, and it sucked hard. the episode lacked any sort of plot and her becoming a princess was  way to abrupt. they started off the episode just fine, but the resolution came to fast, to easy, and before any real problems occurred. something like making twilight a princess needs a little more drama! a two-part episode could have saved this moment. one being the chaos and finding a solution for the cutie mark mess up, and the other the resolution and the naming of princess. another reason why I don't like it is that it upsets the balance between all the characters. before this happened, whenever someone said "[insert name here] is best pony!" i used to respond with "correction: [insert that name here] is just your FAVORITE pony, there is NO BEST PONY" but now that twilight is an alicorn, is a princess, and probably more skilled in magic, the best pony is twilight. before everyone was equal because they all completed each other. there were two earth ponies, two unicorns, and two pegasi. now there is only one unicorn but still two of everything else. also, now that twilight is princess he has pretty much completed her destiny, which only tells me one thing: everybody else will reach the epitome of their destinies. Rainbowdash will be a wonderbolt, fluttershy... well idk but something good, Pinkiepie will be a party planner for equestria, rarity will become renowned as a fashion designer, applejack kind of has hers, the CMC will get their cutie marks (which by the way i am 120% against). after that, whats left? If they don't put some kind of issue in with Twilights alicorn status the show will be looking at a quick death. 

 

of course all of those reasons could be avoided with some creative writing, but i'm worried that they will continue with the horrible writing they put out in the last episode. it could go either way, idk. but if they aren't careful, having twilight being an alicorn could wreck everything the show has achieved so far

 

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The low quality of the episodes in season 3 except for Flutter on and Wonderbolts academy, Twilight being changed into an alicorn all of a sudden against Faust's plans for the purple unicorn, Faust nowhere in the picture, a spin off on MLP and the removal of Fighting is Magic. All signs of dark clouds ahead.

 

Season 4 promises 26 episodes. If the writers couldn't make 13 episodes of one season be good then I don't expect the same quality Season 2 and 1 to have. It's a combination of all those bad news that worries me. Twilicorn is like the biggest kick in the knickers so far.

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