S09:E10 - Going to Seed

[Zestanor 98]

10 hours ago, Senko said:

 

I can also see a case for Diamond being born out of wedlock both between the general pony acceptance of things like that (relationships I mean) and her relationship with her mother and father.

I rather like the rapid series of near catastrophic events in the Apple family that Diamond's legitimacy forces. The intention of the writers of Apple Lies was to portray an early moment in the relationship of the Riches, since Spoiled is new to the Apple family. I don't think we can give much credence to an "illegitimate" Diamond, especially given the standing of their family.

 

Edits: Also in the Chronicles flashback, which happens between the two you pictured, Granny is portrayed in her regular old model. Ignore aging, and things work out okay.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Zestanor

[Truffles 2,033]

Finally getting around to writing a few comments about this one, though there's not much to say that hasn't already been said. It's an OK episode that's quite sound in its characterization of the main cast and has some nice moments - the highlight of which is the flashback to Bright and Pear with their kids. (Bright giving Big Mac his yoke was sweet.) And as others have noted, that scene is fraught with continuity issues. Skipping over the already discussed hard-to-explain issues with continuity in past episodes, the one thing that I noticed was AJ looked so young in the flashback it seems like Apple Bloom ought to appear a lot closer in age to her sister and brother now (or even back in S1, for that matter).

I feel like part of the purpose of that scene was to conclusively negate the possibility that AB is actually AJ's daughter, since AJ was clearly too young to have foals at the time of this flashback. One of my problems with "Where the Apple Lies" is the lack of young Apple Bloom in that episode-long flashback. Instead of discouraging any AJ-AB mother-daughter relationship, it actually indirectly promoted it by making it seem AB didn't exist yet.

The alternative to her not existing yet was Granny, AJ, and Mac were just derelict in caring for her since they up and left her alone when they went to the hospital without taking her. (It was clear their parents were already dead due to the "who runs the farm" scene.) Since that does appear to be the case, I suppose one nicer possible explanation is perhaps some other pony from Ponyville was foalsitting Apple Bloom for the entire time of that episode?

Anyway, back to this episode. It was a bit predictable who the Great Seedling really was, though in a world of beasts I was never 100% sure. The telegraphing of who it was from how tired Big Mac was did make it seem very likely, however. In a season of really good episodes, one of them has to sit at the bottom, and unfortunately this one takes that spot (for now) since it was a little too simple of a plot compared to the other 9 episodes. (I will say this episode is in good company with "Sweet and Smoky" and "Common Ground" since these all seem to be geared toward a younger audience, which as I said in those comments isn't necessarily bad.)

[Senko 459]

4 minutes ago, Truffles said:

Finally getting around to writing a few comments about this one, though there's not much to say that hasn't already been said. It's an OK episode that's quite sound in its characterization of the main cast and has some nice moments - the highlight of which is the flashback to Bright and Pear with their kids. (Bright giving Big Mac his yoke was sweet.) And as others have noted, that scene is fraught with continuity issues. Skipping over the already discussed hard-to-explain issues with continuity in past episodes, the one thing that I noticed was AJ looked so young in the flashback it seems like Apple Bloom ought to appear a lot closer in age to her sister and brother now (or even back in S1, for that matter).

I feel like part of the purpose of that scene was to conclusively negate the possibility that AB is actually AJ's daughter, since AJ was clearly too young to have foals at the time of this flashback. One of my problems with "Where the Apple Lies" is the lack of young Apple Bloom in that episode-long flashback. Instead of discouraging any AJ-AB mother-daughter relationship, it actually indirectly promoted it by making it seem AB didn't exist yet.

The alternative to her not existing yet was Granny, AJ, and Mac were just derelict in caring for her since they up and left her alone when they went to the hospital without taking her. (It was clear their parents were already dead due to the "who runs the farm" scene.) Since that does appear to be the case, I suppose one nicer possible explanation is perhaps some other pony from Ponyville was foalsitting Apple Bloom for the entire time of that episode?

Anyway, back to this episode. It was a bit predictable who the Great Seedling really was, though in a world of beasts I was never 100% sure. The telegraphing of who it was from how tired Big Mac was did make it seem very likely, however. In a season of really good episodes, one of them has to sit at the bottom, and unfortunately this one takes that spot (for now) since it was a little too simple of a plot compared to the other 9 episodes. (I will say this episode is in good company with "Sweet and Smoky" and "Common Ground" since these all seem to be geared toward a younger audience, which as I said in those comments isn't necessarily bad.)

There's also the possibility that in where the apple lies AJ and Big Mac are old enough to not be attending school like kids here can finish after year 10 with 11-PHD being optional i.e 16-19 years of age and Apple Bloom is in school during that episode. Though this is a problem with Granny's "All the family wound up in hospital" but then maybe Bloom had horsey hives or the like and was there as well just off camera? Could also explain Granny wandering off when they got there she was going to visit her other granddaughter.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Senko

[Will Guide 21,325]

@Senko @Truffles @Zestanor

When you have a show that was never meant to have iron clad timeline , of course there's going to be continuity errors. The name of the show is Friendship is Magic, not Timelines are Magic. 

They purposely don't make a concrete timeline and keep the amount of time that passes between episodes vague so they can focus on making good episodes that can for the most part be enjoyed in any order within the same season.

Still, sometimes I make up silly reasons to handwave some of the continuity errors in some small way. For example, Granny Smith is NOT hundreds of years old. When Twilight said, "For Hundreds of Years, Earth Ponies never used magic to clean up winter" she meant "for hundreds of years BEFORE Ponyville was founded roughly less than a century ago, they never relied on Unicorn Magic to clean up Winter, so they do the same for Ponyville". Granny Smith may be old but she's not that old.

Besides, there is a thing called Early Installment Weirdness. Shows that go on for a long time are allowed to have that.

[Senko 459]

1 minute ago, Will Guide said:

@Senko @Truffles @Zestanor

When you have a show that was never meant to have iron clad timeline , of course there's going to be continuity errors. The name of the show is Friendship is Magic, not Timelines are Magic. 

They purposely don't make a concrete timeline and keep the amount of time that passes between episodes vague so they can focus on making good episodes that can for the most part be enjoyed in any order within the same season.

Still, sometimes I make up silly reasons to handwave some of the continuity errors in some small way. For example, Granny Smith is NOT hundreds of years old. When Twilight said, "For Hundreds of Years, Earth Ponies never used magic to clean up winter" she meant "for hundreds of years BEFORE Ponyville was founded roughly less than a century ago, they never relied on Unicorn Magic to clean up Winter, so they do the same for Ponyville". Granny Smith may be old but she's not that old.

Besides, there is a thing called Early Installment Weirdness. Shows that go on for a long time are allowed to have that.

I WILL create my concrete timeline MWAHAHAHAHAHA.

Also for some reason your post made me picture Granny Smithy using phoenix feathers to brew a rejuvenation potion every couple of decades to make herself young again.

[Will Guide 21,325]

3 minutes ago, Senko said:

I WILL create my concrete timeline MWAHAHAHAHAHA.

Also for some reason your post made me picture Granny Smithy using phoenix feathers to brew a rejuvenation potion every couple of decades to make herself young again.

Do whatever you want as long as you allow other fans to have their own interpretation of how the timeline goes. Everyone has their own way of thinking. As long as you share it, not force it upon others.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Will Guide

[Senko 459]

Just now, Will Guide said:

Do whatever you want as long as you allow other fans to have their own interpretation of how the timeline goes. Everyone has their own way of thinking. As long as you share it, not force it upon others.

Yep no worries even with my timeline there are some episodes that are "This could be spring or summer and here or there . . . I'll put it here because I have nothing better to guide me." while others are placed based on things like orange slices in drinks. I do intend to post it here for feedback when I'm done but I'm only halfway through season 7 I just hope to get 7 and 8 done (stupid work commmitments) before the end of season 9 and the end of the show.

[Zestanor 98]

The flashback in this episode is presented as a memory, so there is some room to accuse Applejack and Granny Smith of having poor memories.

Seeing the original “home life” of the Apple family, with the parents still there, makes the rest of the siblings lives tragic. Originally, Applejack was my favorite character, and though I dropped that at some point, now I think I’ve returned to my original opinion. The death of her parents is more adversity than any other of the Mane 6 went through, and it helps explain her idiosyncrasies.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Zestanor

[Violet Bookish 349]

Yeah, this one really didn't do it for me. This episode has the issue most Applejack episodes have, AJ having rather spastic behavior. I find it very hard to believe that AJ would go from being extremely stubborn and suspicious of Goldie to suddenly believing in the myth just because animals couldn't have done it. She doesn't even consider blaming Goldie again, even though in their last interaction she didn't seem to believe Goldie's claims. So, she goes from very mature and stubborn to childlike and excitable. The shift felt sudden and it didn't really make sense for AJ's character. I think it would be more believable if, after hearing the story from her grandma and talking to Apple Bloom, AJ realized what she missed out on as a filly and decided that she didn't want Apple Bloom to experience the same. So she backs off, but since her sister begs for her help (and maybe granny tries to convince her as well because she thinks AJ has issues with having fun, see Grannies Gone Wild), she decides to help Apple Bloom and ends up having a good time. Things would mostly stay the same until the scene where they see the spirit, where AJ would probably end up believing (maybe as they do more activities she'd start believing a little bit), then when she realizes it was her brother she thinks she was right and it never existed to begin with. She can still learn the lesson that you're never too old to be a filly and have childlike fun, maybe tied in with the lesson everyone is different (sure AJ doesn't believe anymore but that doesn't mean Apple Bloom won't, in fact, I'd argue AJ would end up hoping Apple Bloom turns out more flexible and energetic than her), with the surprise carrot ending and AJ is amazed and starts to believe. It'd make that ending even more shocking, in my opinion, because the audience would be made to be even more skeptical since things are shown mostly through AJ's perspective.

Now my fixes aren't perfect, but I think it'd be more believable if Apple Jack didn't believe. The episode could still have the adorable sister moments but Apple Jack would feel more like, well...Apple Jack. But that's just my opinion and it depends on how you see the character. In the end I gave the episode a C- because I wasn't all that impressed but it wasn't bad enough for a D.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Violet Bookish

[Truffles 2,033]

On 6/4/2019 at 9:22 PM, Will Guide said:

When you have a show that was never meant to have iron clad timeline , of course there's going to be continuity errors. The name of the show is Friendship is Magic, not Timelines are Magic. 

True enough, but I'm a bit OCD about trying to fit things into plausible timelines. Even with my own stories I always think about where in the continuity it takes place before I even start writing it down.

[Will Guide 21,325]

Just now, Truffles said:

True enough, but I'm a bit OCD about trying to fit things into plausible timelines. Even with my own stories I always think about where in the continuity it takes place before I even start writing it down.

Me too. Perhaps once the show ends, I can get to finally writing my stories based on the show.

[Senko 459]

Good luck on that and I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts on my timeline when I post it here for feedback, 10 episodes into season 7 so far.

[Sepul-Coloratura 756]

An episode about Applejack picking apples? I'm all in.

This episode felt like one of the early seasons, which is the greatest thing for me, but it also inherited some flaws of that era too. The good part of it is that once again, MLP felt like a grounded story happening in an imaginative place called Ponyville. This episode reminded why I started watching MLP. It felt like a show that I fell in love with which was about (cute) ponies' daily life and small accidents in the town. It also didn't force itself too hard towards something to make a dumb conflict or a drama. I was afraid that Applejack (or anyone) would cause some stupid unsympathetic commotion at any time because the plot requires her to it, but eventually, it didn't happen. I was just happy to see the Apple family work together and have a good time being together. And see Applejack pick apples. And her being with her sister. And being at the apple farm. And us learning new things about the farm life and culture, somewhat a similar feeling to the zap apple episode. (this is not something like "Lore" or "World Building".) Applejack felt like a living breathing character with a heart again. She is just a pony who sometimes gets excited like a filly. For some of you who doesn't know, Applejack is actually awesome.

The shortcomings were that it felt less resolved and bit anti-climatic at the end. The tension (it is not a tense episode, but every story has it) that was building up didn't seem to get anywhere and just ended that way. The story didn't connect to the conclusion, and the conclusion itself was kinda vague. So it didn't felt like a whole tight story put together. But I welcome these kinds of episodes, because it's rare these days. But of course, it would be perfect when it's a slice of life episode with a solid story and a clear conclusion.

I'm not a fan of relying on the context outside of the current episode itself. So Goldie Delicious' return didn't mean that much to me even that I like her, Applejack's parents too. But it wasn't done in an annoying way. It moved along very quickly, so it didn't felt forced or overused. But it would have been better if the episode offered something obviously bigger and better than those callbacks even for some people who think those parts were the best part. It would have also been better if we could saw the actual mythical creature at the end, or if not, have a conclusion like Applejack or Applebloom doesn't care, or even if they know it's fake but they move on, or give something rewarding to Big Mac who seemed to do all the hard work and had no fun. But still, the episode left a sweet taste and left me with a positive feeling at the end.

Better than the premiere, better than Uprooted, better than The Point of No Return, better than Common Ground, better than She's All Yak, better than Sweet and Smoky IMO.

Edited June 8, 2019 by Sepul-Coloratura

[Sepul-Coloratura 756]

On 6/3/2019 at 2:46 AM, PathfinderCS said:

Godz I just love the design of thise creature. Imma believe it's real; just cause!

I think most of the imaginative beings of pinies are deer creatures, like Gift Givers of the Grove. It would be awesome if all the Mane Six is related to each one. (Applejack and Pinkie Pie already has one). Come to think of it, it would have been a better version of the pillars arc.

This could be a better design of the power-up form of Applejack as well.

[bigbertha 410]

This episode is pretty meh. There are a couple decent gags and adding Goldie Delicious helps the episode to stand out at least a little, but in general I feel like this episode is just missing something to make it enjoyable. The jokes aren't that good, the episode definitely isn't charming, and the dialogue isn't anything special. 

Score: 5/10

[JCKane 345]

On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 9:42 PM, Senko said:

I haven't been expecting that, it'd be nice but in season 9 and the wrap up season I can't see them wanting to vary the formula they know works and upsetting fans. I know its why I personally dislike the new Sabrina and Archie series because they aren't the comcis I grew up with they're just a gritty, grim dark series that have had popular names mashed onto them in the hopes of attracting fans. If MLP suddenly abandoned the way it'd been doing things for a massive build up, final battle where Twilight and the mane 6 die stopping Grogar it'd make some people happy and a lot of others unhappy.

Well, I guess when I said "Super serious season long adventure" I guess I was more refering to like how there's a more 'serious tone' with the episodes that typically feature the larger bad guys.  Howevere, while I know that's not how it'd be either, I dunno like I feel like we'd be seeing more episodes 'wraping things up' or a bit more "Hey there's a larger plot going on this season" amoungst the episodes.

Like how in season... Eh I forget which... season 4?  Where they had those episodes where they did the tasks and got rainbow's in their eyes or what not. (lead up to the Tirek encounter)  or even the "Tree's map" episodes in later episodes. (What ever happened to that anyways?  Like, seriously it just stopped sending them on quests for seemingly no reason :/ )  Either way, just not seeing a since of 'finale' in this season or what not. so *shrug*

[Sunlight Glisten 368]

I think they addressed the Santa issue quite well. Its about the fun not the belief. Loved the sisterly bonding. 

[Sinvanor 25]

Very quaint perfectly fine episode. I enjoyed. Was absolutely about the joy and wonder of "magic" as a kid and spending time with family who loves you and enjoys being with you. The little bit at the end about "Maybe it is real" is absolutely just a nice spark that people keep going with their own kids till they come of age to say that either way, it was a lot of fun to think it was real.

[Metemponychosis 1,236]

Ugh... This reminded me of the deer-elf-things from the comics.

Now, that was some nice bonding between Applejack and Applebloom, and I enjoyed the whole episode, from Big Mac getting stuff done to the ambiguous ending about the thing existing or not. I think that the great thing about this episode is the celebration of the all the fun that are things like Santa Claus, for example, or these characters I loved to dream about as a child. Other than that, I don't think there was another thing that stood out in the episode other than it was simply fun.

So, good one.

[Turiel 6]

I wasn’t really sure what the moral was supposed to be until the end. I am glad that Applejack did decide to make a comprise with Apple Bloom instead of getting mad at her.

[Allen 1,371]

They gave Big McIntosh a hard time while he's tired and can't get enough hours of sleep. When I'm in this episode, I want to clean those mess up that saves him time. Applejack reveals in this episode that she has martial arts moves on her back hooves while harvesting at least 100% of all apples in Sweet Apple Acres with Apple Bloom, that's good for her!  I will say this episode is great since this episode must be cleaned up of all those mess and 100% of all apples are harvested at the conclusion. 

[Cash In 21,517]

I actually enjoyed this episode quite a lot. While there were a lot of predictable factors in it, the pure laid-back nature of the plot as well as the chemistry between the characters makes up for me. Applebloom's (and later Applejack's) efforts to find The Great Seedling really reminded me of the good old days as a kid, and it was quite cute to watch. Goldie Delicious definitely added a lot more character to the overall plot and I liked the inclusion of the flashback, where Applejack was trying to trap The Great Seedling as a filly. It was actually quite a heartwarming episode and I'm glad they left the ending ambiguous - as to whether The Great Seedling actually existed or not. The design of The Great Seedling overall was quite ambitious, but it payed off and kind of makes me wish that it had a definitive appearance. It's not something I'm going to lose sleep over. I did end up feeling a bit sorry for Big Mac, seeing as he ended up clearing at least 80% of the Apple trees - poor guy. I know people have stated that there were a couple of continuity errors, but it really isn't something that bothers me very much. I know others may feel differently, though I thought that it would be worth pointing out.

[BlinkZ 1,151]

I watched it and found it rather....okay...wasn't bad but wasn't anyting really that special. Sure the cameo of the parents was nice but The lack of apologize to Big Mac was just irritating. Mac overworked and they don't say "Sorry" oh come on! It was their fault he overworked himself. They kept hamming in that nail so ..dang..hard...

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,809]

Started watching this episode the week it came out, but paused. I cheated a little bit but finally finished the episode. It was ok. Kinda reminds me of Santa Claus and today...

[Here No Longer 5,270]

I... Did not like this one, to say the least... It did nail the characterization of AJ and had a great character design for the Great Seedling, but really that's it. Now for all the problems:

 

• The moral is awful. As in, one of the worst morals in the show so far. I interpreted it as being "logical people are just grumps, we should all be stupid and superstitious!" It's so bad in fact, that I'd debate that it actually probably is the worst moral in this show, because it quite literally encourages people to believe in things they KNOW to be utter nonsense. .
• The whole premise was not only predictable, but groanworthy... The whole Santa Claus trope this premise takes on not only has been overused to the point of becoming downright annoying outside of Christmas movies, but it's also ridiculous for reasons that should be obvious enough...
• Goldie and Granny Smith irritated me, quite a bit for being upset with Applejack... For trying to be REASONABLE and say that this is a total and utter waste of time as it should have been. It would have been MUCH better also if it were actually NOT real and THAT was the conflict, but I digress.

 

It could have been much worse, though yet again it could also have been a totally different episode entirely. I rate this a 4/10. Hopefully Student Counsel is better, because it will get to early Season 7 levels before too long if this keeps up...