S07:E10 - A Royal Problem

[Ganondorf8 11,297]

14 hours ago, Babyyoshi309 said:

Actually, Celestia just raised the moon. She did not help with dreams. In fact, they literally say in the episode that Celestia CAN'T control dreams like Luna can.

Guess I missed that part during my subsequent re-watches of the episode.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

Seeing some Starlight haters now say Starlight could easily defeat Celestia and Luna because of this episode SMH...Smh

 

Anyway, based on an earlier comment, I think it is entirely possible that the "mysterious" alternate timeline from the Cutie Remark was Day Breaker coming and destroying everything that stood in her way.

[Regent 77]

See fandom, you got what you wanted *and* Starlight was the key to it all. It's almost like there may be a lesson to learn from that. Hmm...

[Dark Qiviut 22,393]

There's one word to describe this episode: disappointing.

The biggest problem in the entire episode: how Luna and Celestia behaved. Their conflict that triggered Starlight's cutie mark switch was completely out of character. Not by the fact they fought, but by how they behaved in contrast to the continuity of the show. The episode implies that they've been at odds for a long time now and was brewing recently. Unlike Slice of Life, their argument crossed the line into being personal. It wasn't fun reading the Luna/Celestia comic, because they argued and yelled at each other like immature, incompetent brats rather than competent leaders with a millennium of growth, and I hold the same here.

It also doesn't help when continuity was ignored. Both Luna and Celestia dismissed others' hard work as small or meaningless. With the way they acted towards each other, it's as if they never cared for each other at all. Both of them were separated for 1,000 years; wouldn't that result in them attempting to try to get closer and put in the effort to try to not let this happen again?

The side that insulted me the most is Celestia, and not just because Celestia's my favorite princess. Celestia showed grief and remorse for sealing Luna into the moon for a millennium, and they cried when they reunited. While Luna was sealed, Celestia painted a façade to hide her guilt while she performed double duty. Through the animation, they really missed each other. When she insulted Luna's dreamwalking as petty, it made me wonder for a minute whether she genuinely missed her or not.

Rather than trying to solve the problem, both of them were actively being the problem and needed Starlight to tell them directly. When you have characters that old and intelligent, it symbolizes incompetence. If they were that smart, they'd actively fight to fix the problems caused in the first place.

Quote

Celestia: Moon raised. It's even easier than raising the sun. *chuckle*

This quote by Celestia, in particular her conceited behavior, symbolizes the problem in a nutshell. Celestia raised and set both the sun and moon for 1,000 years, yet she acted like she never did it before. This is in direct contradiction to the continuity that Twilight referenced in Act 1.

The saving grace in this entire episode is Starlight. Given how immature they were behaving, it's understandable why Starlight rushed to perform that act of magic. But what helped make it work is the episode really showed the consequences of Starlight's reckless action. Twilight was absolutely right to chew her out for it, and it was clear how much Starlight regretted it, both immediately and over the course of the episode. The lack of conceit really puts her in a sympathetic light.

One other problem I had is at the end when Luna and Celestia told Starlight that "going with her gut" was the right course of action. @Kyoshi has a strong point why that line's a problem from a moral side. I have a very different problem with it, this time from the technical side.

Starlight underwent so much stress in this episode, particularly the climax, that she actually needed comfort. When they said she did the right thing, all of the guilt she suffered throughout not only felt pointless, but was treated like it was a minor deal. What happened wasn't minor. Grief, in particular self-inflicted, isn't something to be taken for granted. Her pain isn't taken seriously. Please treat it with respect.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Dark Qiviut

[Jeric 46,851]

2 hours ago, Ganondorf8 said:

Guess I missed that part during my subsequent re-watches of the episode.

It's implied heavily throughout, and all but confirmed by Luna's dialog with Celestia regarding defeating Daybreaker. 

44 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Her pain isn't taken seriously. Please treat it with respect.

I can see where you may feel that the passion of the dialog may fall short, but it was there in the two places it needed to be, and in fact the writer cut that off at the past.

Luna specifically, and with a sense of desperate urgency, pleads with Celestia to use the dream magic to defeat Daybreaker and Nightmare Moon before Starlight's mental health is irreparably damaged. Hell, it was so panicked that it made me believe that Pony Nightmares may actually be dangerous. 

I'd say that sufficiently counts as telling the audience that they care and are treating Starlight's pain with respect. They also close the scene off telling her that she need not apologize as she basically made the right call. 

This isn't a technical writing issue. It was legitimately addressed. It sounds like your complaint has more to do with the style that the writer chose to communicate it. 

[Dark Qiviut 22,393]

1 hour ago, Jeric said:

I'd say that sufficiently counts as telling the audience that they care and are treating Starlight's pain with respect. They also close the scene off telling her that she need not apologize as she basically made the right call. 

That's the problem. Starlight's reckless abandon wasn't the right call. Her decision caused massive problems not only around her, but also herself. To say it's the right call treats what happened leading up to the resolution as no big deal when it nearly mentally hurt her. Better, more careful wording would've helped.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Dark Qiviut

[Dynamo Pad 11,286]

I absolutely loved this episode. I liked how Starlight was called by the map to see the Princesses. I was surprised as well because I thought only Twilight and the others could be called. I guess this means there will be more ponies that can be called by the map. Spike's idea of what the problem was about had me laughing. I guess he broke the fourth wall, or something along those lines. I like how Twilight was the ballerina music box in Starlight's room. It reminded me of the haycart spell used in "Amending Fences." I feel that every time I saw Twilight, I imagine that's the reaction the audience had. I liked how we got to see both sides of the Princesses stories, so we could see what was troubling them. I was surprised how Celestia's and Luna's marks were switched, but it was interesting on them living a day in each other's shoes. It's cool we get to see what Celestia does in Luna's perspective. Since we don't see most of Celestia's daily activities of being a princess. It's cool we get to see Celestia go to the dream realm. I especially loved that we got to see Celestia have character in this episode. While it was good to see her get character in "Celestial Advice." It was even greater to see her get more development in this episode. It was also great to see Celestia and Luna acting like ponies. While they acted like princess and regally in front of other ponies. It was nice to see that they acted like themselves, or something along those lines. I found it humorous when it came to Celestia and Luna admitted to talking to themselves. I tend to do that from time to time, so I guess I could relate to that bad habit. The dreams were especially cool and pretty random, but otherwise amazing. Day Breaker was really cool and an interesting dark side to Celestia. I'm glad the sisters were able to understand one another and fix their friendship problems. All in all, I liked the moral and the episode was amazing. This is probably one of my favorite episodes this season, so far. I hope we get to see more ponies use the cutie map later on this season. I especially hope we get more episodes that help develop Celestia and Luna more as characters.  

Edited May 22, 2017 by Dynamo Pad

[FlootahBabby 265]

Well, it seemed very fast paced. I felt like I was watching Faily Odd Parents at times.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

I really hate the fact that Starlight can magically alter a however many millenia's old sentient thing like the Tree of Harmony, to have its map call her on a friendship mission. No doubt its from her meddling with the damn thing from the cutie Re-mark, meaning it's NOT fixed, but still, she shouldn't be allowed to go on map missions, when she uses her magic impulsively, or even uses magic to solve friendship problems at all.

[Thrond 3,263]

12 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

I really hate the fact that Starlight can magically alter a however many millenia's old sentient thing like the Tree of Harmony, to have its map call her on a friendship mission. No doubt its from her meddling with the damn thing from the cutie Re-mark, meaning it's NOT fixed, but still, she shouldn't be allowed to go on map missions, when she uses her magic impulsively, or even uses magic to solve friendship problems at all.

I don't think she messed with the map, and her impulsive use of magic is quite clearly the exact reason why the map called her in the first place. The map has never been explained to us, so worrying about its rules being broken is just silly. Who's to say what its rules even are? The show's never told us! 

[Storm 199]

Did anyone else notice that Celestia and Luna's magic horn glow was different after the cutie mark switch? Could that mean that the cutie mark determines what color your horn glow is?

[NotoriousSMALL 1,984]

Absolutely magnificent episode

the only issue is that now I want more princess episodes 

[blackstarraven 142]

On 5/20/2017 at 9:03 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

Or Twilight's, for that matter! "Lesson Zero" aside, of course. 

Well.. If you count Sci-Twi... We have seen evil Twilight. Midnight Sparkle.

 

Also on a sidenote... I really want evil Cadence to have mind control powers... make everyone love her. So... Basically evil cadence would just be Queen Cheese Legs only better at the job.

Also as a side note...

Tyrant Celestial Confirmed....

Really... Darkbreaker was just.. wow... I have a new Wifu.

[Eiwly 77]

hOLY CRAP. JUST. HOLY FREAKIN CRAP!!! This episode was absolutely PHENOMENAL!!! I honestly don't think there are enough words to describe just HOW MUCH I LOOOVE this episode!!

Not only do we get a better look at the princesses but also Starlight in a leading & important role?? JUST YESS!!!

Aaaah I don't even know where to begin with this. Hmm perhaps with the premise & plot? I'll be honest, at first, by synopsis only, I wasn't too blown away with the idea. I mean, the characters involved? Yes that was exciting! But the whole idea over all sounded kinda bland if I'm honest. But MAAAN was the delivery wonderful! Sure it's a bit on the nose with the moral, the grass is greener n all that, but it's a 20 minute episode, and they jammed a lot in there, so I can let it slide. Thus, the pacing of the episode did come off as a little fast. But it didn't really bother me, so much was going on and I loved it all!

But I did like how the focal point of the episode had a gradual shift from Starlight to the princesses. We go from Starlight taking on an important task, as designated by the map, to figuring out and trying to solve the problem, and eventually shifting to her working with the princesses, and then finally focusing on the princesses as they solve their friendship problem. To me, this had a nice smooth flow to the narrative, and worked really well, with Starlight being both a character and a device for forwarding the story.

Now onto the characters, starting with Celestia and Luna. I thought this episode did a STELLAR job at really grounding them as characters. For most of the show, they've come across as these lofty, god-like beings, with (at least to me) little by way of personalities. This easily cemented them in reality, and gave a better idea of who they are. The problem they faced, lack of communication, was also one that one that was really mundane, which I felt made the episode all the more better. Anyone can fall into that dilemma where they don't completely convey their feelings, and it leads to a problem between people. Also, the show clearly showed Celestia and Luna as an extrovert and introvert respectively which I liked c: 

And then there's Starlight!!! AAAH I love her so much, and I think she did a great job handling the task here! Sure the cutie mark switch was impulsive, but I'll get to that in a bit. I liked how the showed her tackling the problem, figuring it out, and then confronting the problem, by talking about it with the princesses. And when her plan didn't work, she went with her gut and did what she thought was right, by having the two live a day in each other's life. Was it an impulsive switch? Yes. But was it malicious, which most of you seem to be implying it was? No, absolutely not. It was an instinctive move she did, to try and do what was right. Celestia even says later, that Starlight made the right choice by going with her gut, even if it didn't seem the best choice at the time. Basically saying, trust your instincts. Besides gotta force that freaky friday scenario somehow  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also her conversations and reaction to music box Twilight were hilarious! Speaking of Twi, she really felt like an expy for the brony fandom in this ep. She flat out admits her bias and is appalled at the idea of the princesses not being the best at something X') Plus her constant need to like, BE THERE was just hilarious!

Side note before I go on, can I just say how much I LOOOVED Starlight's interaction with Luna after the school ponies fiasco? I just really like how she was trying to encourage her to move on, and not dwell on was had already happened. I though this was a great scene, especially when we remember where Starlight was last season finale. Thought short, I thought it was great.

Starlight's dream, when the ep really shifted focus to the princesses, was well done in my opinion. It really forced the two to face their problem head on, and shows how they work well together. Well, Celestia facing them head on with Luna's support, since she couldn't do anything in the dream realm ata this time. Honestly I don't really have much to say about this part. Daybreaker was cooool, and from Celestia's reaction, seems she's the real deal, even though its technically Starlight's dream. Speaking of dream's Luna's was just downright creepy. I'll admit, part of this whole sequence felt a bit gimicky, as it literally FORCED them to confront one another again and admit their wrongs to one another, but perhaps that's just a time sensitive issue. 

I think one of the strong part of the ep were Celestia and Luna's interractions. They fought like sisters, made up like sisters, and by the end, they were joking together just like the sisters they are.

Also, to everyone griping about why Starlight was the one sent in this episode, I raise you this question: why not Starlight? She's plenty strong and talented with magic, and she clearly doesn't have a bias, as Twilight implies, and Celestia acknowledges this, by claiming no other would take the steps she did to try and solve this. I personally thought she was a good choice, showing her stepping out and really taking on a leader role, like was sorta hinted at last season finale. But maybe that's just my bias showing that I think she was a good choice.

Aaaah I don't know what else to day. I rambled WAAAAY more than I wanted to, but I just loved this episode so SO much so I???? It was very well done in my opinion. Time to rewatch it like 10 more times~

[Thrond 3,263]

1 hour ago, Eiwly said:

But was it malicious, which most of you seem to be implying it was? No, absolutely not.

I don't think it was malicious so much as thoughtless and potentially harmful. I'm not really sure whether I feel Starlight's doubt counteracts the praise she gets for it. She does only use it as an impulsive last resort under significant pressure, but I don't think many ponies would take it as well as Celestia and Luna did, and I guess I'm tired of Starlight stories revolving around this. 

3 hours ago, blackstarraven said:

Well.. If you count Sci-Twi... We have seen evil Twilight. Midnight Sparkle.

That's true! That's probably not far off from what Princess Twi would be like if she succumbed to darkness. 

[KatonRyu 1,033]

I really enjoyed this episode. It seemed like the princesses were a bit more like they are in the comics, and I think that's a welcome change of pace. My headcanon's become that Starlight's talent lies in cutie mark magic, considering I didn't think anyone but Twilight could swap cutie marks, and she didn't do it on purpose. Then again, Starlight didn't switch their 'true selves', merely the marks and their talents. I also liked how the magic auras changed color when the cutie marks did. Definitely one of my favorite episodes of the season thus far.

[Ganondox 899]

On 5/21/2017 at 8:06 AM, SaburoDaimando said:

Something I wanna add that I thought was fascinating: Daybreaker right now stands as the only villain that none of the Mane 6, be it in Equestria or on Earth, actually even confronted.  It's only Celestia, Luna and Starlight.  Which makes me wonder how Twilight and the others will react to the idea of Daybreaker?

Kinda? First there is the cyclops from the griffon episode, never was technically confronted but still mentioned and still a villain. Second, I don't know if this quite counts, because Daybreaker wasn't real, just a dream. The only harm Daybreaker could actually cause was damaging Starlight Glimmer's psyche, when she originated from Starlight's psych in the first place (apparently). 

[Jeric 46,851]

6 minutes ago, Ganondox said:

Kinda? First there is the cyclops from the griffon episode, never was technically confronted but still mentioned and still a villain. Second, I don't know if this quite counts, because Daybreaker wasn't real, just a dream. The only harm Daybreaker could actually cause was damaging Starlight Glimmer's psyche, when she originated from Starlight's psych in the first place (apparently). 

I'm starting to think that "protecting Ponies in their dreams" may be literal. @_@ 

[Ganondox 899]

Just now, Jeric said:

I'm starting to think that "protecting Ponies in their dreams" may be literal. @_@ 

If so, there must have been plague of dream damage during those thousand years. 

[Princess Book Horse 352]

Best. Episode. Ever!!!!!!!! That is all.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Is anyone else disappointed that we didn't get to see Kibitz, the royal scheduling advisor in this episode? I'm  kinda upset that we saw neither hide nor hair of Kibitz, and that it was all left up to Starlight to tell the Princesses their schedules.

where the bloody buck is Kibitz?!

also- immature sisters act immature for 1000+ year old ponies, and Starlight is a fool. Don't use magic if you second guess yourself, and can't even undo a 24-hour spell you probably made by combining others, yourself! -headdesk-

[Thrond 3,263]

33 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

Is anyone else disappointed that we didn't get to see Kibitz, the royal scheduling advisor in this episode?

I don't even remember who that was, and I'm not entirely sure where he'd fit into the episode anyway. 

33 minutes ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

immature sisters act immature for 1000+ year old ponies

I don't think any amount of age is so much that two ponies who are constantly busy and exhausted might miss some social cues and fail to properly acknowledge the other. Besides, I prefer when they're given some humanity. 

[ManaMinori 4,145]

21 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I don't even remember who that was, and I'm not entirely sure where he'd fit into the episode anyway. 

I don't think any amount of age is so much that two ponies who are constantly busy and exhausted might miss some social cues and fail to properly acknowledge the other. Besides, I prefer when they're given some humanity. 

never said they couldn't have humanity, but the way Sunbutt was talking made her seem like a petulant tween. =_=; these sisters have been knowing each other for well over 1000 years. Tired or not, they should be able to pick up on each others' social cues at this point, which made the episode unbelievable.

Kibitz: http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Kibitz

[Eggy0 103]

It's taken me a while to get to this, but I'd like to say that I really love this episode.

Now what I've been seeing is that some people complained about Starlight impulsively using her magic and the princesses "acting out of character".

Now here's the thing about the latter: in reality, even two people who love each other to death no matter what can and will bicker, argue and fight as if they're sworn enemies at least one point in their lives, and all it takes is an external factor that causes stress to either one or both of them and makes them take it out on the other person. If you pay any attention, you'll see that Celestia and Luna were both working very hard and were exhausted from their duties, which eventually made both grumpy about the other "ignoring her effort" and failing to notice they were just too tired and busy to see it. This is something I can relate to on a personal level; I have two parents who are apparently supposed to love and appreciate each other, yet on occasion I'm condemned to hearing their constant fights about what the other does (from what I know, my mom works as a janitor and my dad is an alcoholic plumber, and both have accused the other of "not contributing to the family" and whatnot if I'm not mistaken) and I honestly can't stand it, but sadly there's nothing I can do about this. If Celestia and Luna appreciated each other for eternity no matter what, even if it's in character, it's not realistic. They can't be on perfect terms all the time unless they devote enough time to their friendship, which is nearly impossible since one does her duties during day and the other during night which allows for little time to spend together. It may be a cartoon, but in all honesty there's no such thing as two or more people being friendly with each other forever without a single conflict between them. Just because you are best friends with someone does not mean you won't ever have a conflict (unless you stick to it really hard). It's a fact of life. Another thing is that chances are this hasn't happened abruptly and might as well have been a progressive thing; what I mean is that it could've happened as a simple exhaustion issue (like on the first day of the conflict's development, Luna might've been so tired she accidentally ate a banana peel instead of Celestia's pancakes and/or the tour ponies hogged Celestia too much to allow her to notice the lavender flowers, rinse and repeat for each passing day), and with time the princesses took notice and began having various thoughts and doubts about the other, which eventually grew into feeling unappreciated and culminated into what we see in the episode.

As for Starlight impulsively switching their cutie marks, I think people complaining about this are really just looking at her use of magic and ignoring the rest of the details. First off, Starlight tried to bring the princesses back together without magic, which should negate the argument of "using magic to solve everything" as that argument seems to imply that Starlight went straight for a spell without trying something else first. Basically, Starlight observed both princesses and came to the correct conclusion that they're both being unintentionally unappreciative to the other due to work-related stress and tried to tell them this in hopes of them understanding the situation and forgiving each other. However, this did not work and in fact made the situation worse, by having the princesses loudly and angrily argue how their efforts and duties are much harder than the other, right in front of Starlight who wasn't all too happy to see an unquenchable squabble happening in her face. Which brings me to the second point: Starlight impulsively used magic to switch their cutie marks because she was absolutely desperate to have the princesses stop fighting and she felt like she had no other options (what else was there besides talking to them which didn't work?), not to mention Twilight told her that Luna turned into Nightmare Moon the last time they fought and the princesses' stress-induced fight was escalating fast. Do you really think a friendship-concerned pony like Starlight, who once thought differences would make ponies lose their friends, would just calmly stare at the escalating fight that could hypothetically lead to one or both of the princesses becoming their evil selves while taking her time to think of a solution that doesn't involve magic and/or putting the princesses in each other's (horse)shoes so they see how difficult both of their duties are? For that matter, if Starlight going with her gut was bad and that painting it as a good thing is bad, what other solution was there aside from trying to talk them out of it and/or having them go through a single day with their places switched to see what it's like? I don't think there was any, though chances are I'm not thinking hard enough.

That being said, this is just my two cents. Now I'm not branding the episode as flawless or anything and any kind of opinion is perfectly valid (hell, I could care less if you hated the episode to death for a trivial or absolutely no reason), it's just that I feel like some people don't seem to pay attention to things and point out "flaws" that actually can and do have a reasonable explanation to back them, some of which coincide with examples from real life. If you have any arguments to counter mine, so long as they're reasonable and not negative/an attack, I'd be happy to hear your side of the story as well

Sorry for the wall of text by the way, and I hope I didn't offend anyone! Just wanted to put out my own thoughts out there. I have no intention of attacking other opinions, just wanted to rectify what I myself believe people might've gotten a wrong idea about but you're free to stick with whatever you believe. After all, we don't all see one thing the same way!

[Thrond 3,263]

1 hour ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

never said they couldn't have humanity, but the way Sunbutt was talking made her seem like a petulant tween. =_=; these sisters have been knowing each other for well over 1000 years. Tired or not, they should be able to pick up on each others' social cues at this point, which made the episode unbelievable.

1

I think they simply weren't paying too much attention, and given the circumstances I find that perfectly understandable.