S07:E10 - A Royal Problem

[Dusky Flare 11]

Isn't that something wonderful about this show? Us all here talking about ethics?

Love this fandom....!

 

[CypherHoof 26,479]

2 minutes ago, Dusky Flare said:

Isn't that something wonderful about this show? Us all here talking about ethics?

Love this fandom....!

I do like the idea of the next generation starting out with a sense of Ethics based on the show though. Provided it's an appropriate sense of ethics of course

[Batbrony 15,994]

Ya know, switching their coffee instead of their cutie marks might have honestly been a more dangerous move on Starlight's part

Good afternoon, everypony, and welcome back to another edition of "Batbrony Reviews"!!!  Well, after the horror that was "Hard to Say Anything," and the mixed results of "Honest Apple," we needed something extra special to wipe the bade taste of those two episodes out of our mouths.  After today's episode, I am very happy to say that we got just that and so much more!  "A Royal Problem" is easily, for me at least, the best episode of Season 7 so far, and the only disappointing thing about it at all is that since it premiered early in Canada, pretty much half of the brony fandom has known how great it is for weeks and let the other brony fandom know early on just how great it was.  It's a very little thing to complain about, I know, but it really would have been nicer if the episode had debuted in both Canada and the U.S. at the same time so that the majority of bronies would have seen it at the same time.  Still, if that's my sole complaint, you just know we must be in for quite a treat, right?  Right you are, so without further ado, let's dive into a truly spectacular episode, this is "A Royal Problem."

NOTE: Because this episode is complex in content but simple in the number of pieces involved in its execution, this review will largely be divvied up into the main players involved, that being (1) Princess Celestia and Princess Luna, (2) Starlight Glimmer, and (3) Twilight Sparkle.  Miscellaneous items will be covered towards the end of the review, but the meat of the review will be found in covering these three characters.

The Royal Sisters: Princess Celestia and Princess Luna

So despite the Cutie Mark Map and Starlight Glimmer initiating this episode, this episode is really about Princess Celestia and Princess Luna.  As you can see below, I've labeled Starlight Glimmer not as the "Problem Resolver," but rather the "Problem Confronter," and that's because she really doesn't resolve things, and honestly that's not a bad thing.  I'll go into more detail about that later, but really, the primary actors here are Celestia and Luna, because ultimately they have to be the ones who resolve their differences.

Before I go any further, let me first just say that it is about damn time we FINALLY got an episode focused on both of these two, especially Celestia.  While Celestia did have a great appearance in the season premiere, it was still in the same role we've always largely seen her in, that of mentor; while it makes sense that Luna has had more appearances to date since she does have more personal issues to tackle than her sister, pretending like Celestia had no issues of her own would have risked making her out to be a Mary Sue.  While I still don't think that Celestia has as much to deal with in her personal life as her sister does, it is nice to finally see her flawed side as well, and really I just want to see even more after this of these two just doing sister-things together.

But back to the meat of things.  What is the problem they need to deal with?  Basically a sibling problem.  No really, that's it.  Even after Luna's return, they still haven't learned how to truly appreciate each other, mostly on a professional level.  They clearly love each other, but they run into a problem that many siblings can run into as they get older, busier, and more distant (while these two live in the same castle, they run an entire country and celestial bodies, so it's not hard to see how they might be more distant even living in such close proximity to each other): they fall out of touch with each other's lives, what the other is up to, the challenges and struggles they face on a daily basis, what their priorities and schedules are, and just forgetting how to make time for each other in general.  It's actually a very understandable problem especially for people who have siblings (especially those in two-child households like myself); keep in mind, in a two-child household with siblings not that far apart in age, your sibling is probably your first best friend, but also someone who as a kid you most likely live with on a daily basis and the best friend you are least worried about getting into spats big and small with because you know that, unless something REALLY bad happens, you'll still be loving each other at the end of the day.  After years of living together, you can easily take for granted the time you get to spend with one another, but before you know it you're growing up, moving away, and seeing each other far less than you used to.  This can be even harder than seeing parents less, because just as you tell or do things with parents that you wouldn't do with anybody else, you also talk about or do things with your sibling that you wouldn't do with anyone else, and they get you in a way that not even your parents can since they're usually pretty close to you in age.

So they're distant and don't appreciate what the other goes through on a regular basis, seems easy enough to resolve, right?  Well, not really, especially for these two.  I would argue that since they're the rulers of all of bucking Equestria, they like to think that this was either a problem that would either fix itself, or was not even a problem at all, just something they could ignore.  Most of the time in their daily lives they have to worry about what they can do for others, not necessarily what they need for themselves.  This made it easy for these issues to slip under their radar, though it's not untrue to siblings either; siblings often let problems between each other fester under the surface until they can't any long and they just explode.  This seems to be where Celestia and Luna were heading before Starlight intervened, and thank goodness she did because who knows how things may have exploded if she hadn't.  What doesn't help is that they literally operate polar-opposite daily schedules (although this episode left me confused as ever as to how much Luna does typically stay awake during the day; Celestia clearly sleeps at night, but Luna often makes daytime appearances, so what the buck is it?  I suppose that the most likely possibility is that she gets 7-8 hours of sleep after going to bed somewhere around 7 or 8 am, which would mean that the latest she's waking up typically would be at 4 pm, with possible exceptions to that rule, of course.  And if the situation really calls for it on special occasions, I'm sure she can get up around noon or early afternoon for special events and get some shuteye later in the day too), so they really only see each other normally in the morning, late afternoon, or early evening, and even then they're usually super busy.  They do, it should be noted, both do little kindnesses for the other, something which in my experience as a sibling older ones often do since they no longer have 24 hours a day to do something nice for their sibling; Celestia makes pancakes every morning for Luna, which always goes unacknowledged since Luna is really too tired to care and just wants to get to sleep, and Luna tries to make the castle as peaceful a place for others to sleep as possible, which Celestia can never really notice or acknowledge since she's usually still busy with kingdom affairs and is on her last leg of the day by that point.

After figuring out that this is how the situation is (doing some very good research I might add), Starlight of course does her old cutie mark-switcheroo on the two so that they have to see for at least a day how the other has to live their lives and what kind of struggles they have to put up with, just so they can appreciate what the other goes through.  Just what do they find out?  Basically that they have an older sibling-younger sibling dispute very much rooted in an old trope about older and younger siblings, that being who they are as a result of how they grew up.  Luna learns that Celestia, as the older sibling who has always taken the lead being the face of the two, largely has to devote most of her time and energy to fulfilling societal expectations, very similar to how older siblings and firstborns may often feel more pressure from their parents to succeed professionally.  Celestia needs to constantly worry about where she's going to be next, who she needs to help her with something, who needs her help, and doing all of this with the same calming, serene smile on all the time, even if it's not what she's feeling at the moment.  After a thousand years she's great at it, but what she's come to take for granted is the idea that her life is as hard as it could get.  What she craves from Luna is just some quiet moments where just the two of them can slow down and not be so perfect, just sisters doing sister things.  Celestia in turn starts to learn that Luna, as the younger sibling who has never garnered as much attention as her elder sister, largely devotes most of her time and energy to working behind the scenes, doing her most good in the Dreamscape, where she can assist ponies one-on-one in the deepest depths of their psyche.  She no longer craves the praise of her subjects as she once did before becoming Nightmare Moon, in fact she seems rather comfortable with working alone (something Princess Celestia clearly is not), but, as the more neglected publicly of the two, Luna resembles very much the archetype of the younger sibling whose parents put less pressure on them than their older sibling to succeed, and as a result they can often feel neglected.  Like this archetype, Luna does not seek affirmation from her subjects, at this point she just wants to help them (emphasized nicely by how much her botch of the fundraiser for a field trip for a bunch of foals bothered her so), but she does seek affirmation from those closest to her, and since her parents aren't still around, that happens to be her sister, her elder sibling and in a sense a semi-parental figure to a certain extent.

After seeing what could be the extreme result of not resolving this problem, that being the return of Nightmare Moon and the emergence of Celestia's own dark side, Daybreaker (an extreme fear no doubt, especially considering Starlight is the one who dreamt it up, but nonetheless not outside the realm of possibility with such powerful beings), Celestia manages to defeat their demonic dream-selves (which works for me considering I would argue that Luna was having a harder time personally dealing with Celestia's neglect, or at least it was hurting her more, while Luna's neglect of Celestia was something Celestia was just trying to bury under a smile, not exactly too hard for her after centuries of wearing smiles day-in and day-out), and the two sisters proclaim and reaffirm their love for one another, resolving to make things right and make time for one another no matter how busy they may be, since, well, there's no pony more special to them than each other.  Their relationship is too unique and precious to squander, and you get the sense that even though it will be a lot of little things making up the bulk of it, that alone will be enough for those two to show each other how much the other truly does love them, plus it should make it easier to go about their own business every day.  A fantastic lesson learned by two characters who, although not the biggest messes in the world since they are so mature from centuries of life, do deserve more development than they have gotten considering they are easily two of the most complex characters on the show.  What more can I say other than everything with these two was perfection, plain and simple.

The Problem Confronter: Starlight Glimmer

There's not nearly as much to say about Starlight or Twilight, thankfully, but both did have pretty great episodes in their own ways.  For Starlight, this was the very first time the Cutie Mark Map has called her, and to top it off in another first it called her alone, the first time it has called anyone alone.  While this could have potentially fallen into the trap of "Ohhhhhhhh, Starlight Glimmer is too special to go with anypony else to solve a friendship problem," it actually was executed great here and made perfect sense.  We know the map seems to understand how both a character's strengths and weaknesses can help resolve a conflict, and it even seems to have some innate sense of how delicate situations may be.  In this case, the problem did not need someone who was going to be able to actively teach Celestia and Luna what they were doing wrong (not entirely at least) so much as somepony who could confront the problem in the first place, make it known to Celestia and Luna that they were having problems.  Starlight was oddly well-positioned for this; unlike Twilight she didn't have any particularly close attachment to Celestia or Luna, but she's about as observant and measured as Twilight can be as well, making her ideal for identifying that a problem exists in the first place, studying the situation more closely, identifying what the problem is, and confronting both sisters about it.  She was also ideal, oddly enough, for forcing these two to confront their problem head on, more so because of who she is than anything else.  It's not hard for Starlight to imagine worst case scenarios, but for very different reasons than Twilight; Twilight almost always considers in even the most banal situations what a worst case scenario could be just because it's who she is.  It's just another thing on her checklists that she takes into account.  Starlight, on the other hand, tries not to worry about worst case scenarios most of the time because if she does, she knows that she's going to spiral into a deep spell of depression and anxiety.  Why?  Because she was at the heart of a worst case scenario when she was a tyrant and almost destroyed Equestria to boot.  Normally she has a pretty good lid on these anxieties, but it's not hard to see why she easily fell into these anxieties here.  After all, she was dealing with a problem that not even Twilight herself had ever confronted involving the two most powerful rulers in all of Equestria, so given that her frighteningly real (to her) nightmare involved the Royal Sisters spiraling in their hatred for each other into Nightmare Moon and Daybreaker, it's clear that she would have held such a scenario to be her own failure.  Her anxiety inadvertently forced Celestia and Luna to remember how much their subjects depend on them, which means they even depend on the two of them maintaining harmony between one another.  So while she may not have ultimately taught them the lesson or fixed things single-hoofedly, Starlight nonetheless was the best pony to initiate the confrontation of and resolution of Celestia and Luna's squabbling, even if she herself quickly realized that it would take them more than her since she was, even early on, quite in over her head.  A very good episode for Starlight all around, in a very odd way at that considering her ultimate contributions were, to a certain extent, pretty limited beyond giving Celestia and Luna the tools to patch things up between one another.

Starlight Glimmer looks far cuter while eating pancakes than anypony should, at least for the sake of the audiences' health

The Beleaguered Comic Relief: Twilight Sparkle

This episode found Twilight in a place we very rarely see her, especially these days: primary comic relief while being a supporting character!  It's rare enough for her to be the primary comic relief in an episode nowadays, but usually even when she is she's still the main character.  Here she was most definitely a supporting character and very deliberately did not have anything much to contribute towards fixing things, which is where most of her humor stemmed from.  We already know that Twilight absolutely hates the idea that there are problems she can't help out with or tackle herself, but it was even more maddening for her to think that there might be something wrong with her precious mentor and her sister which she could not help resolve.  Of course, the fact that Celestia is such a beloved mentor to her is exactly why she couldn't help; she hold Celestia on a pedestal, even more than most ponies typically do, and while this usually isn't a problem, here it would have been.  Compounded with the fact that she has had to help Luna with many personal problems in the past, it's not hard to imagine that Twilight could have easily thought that Luna alone was to blame for these problems, not the both of them.

Thankfully, her displeasure and anxiety at these circumstances leads to some splendid OCD-Twilight freakout moments.  The best running gag of the whole episode (and one of the funniest running gags this whole season so far) was the spell Twilight used to animate some kind of ballet figurine on a music box or something, which ended up being as hilarious as it was creepy.  I especially enjoyed that the Royal Guards by Starlight could easily hear her talking to Twilight and thought that she was going insane.  Besides that, Twilight didn't do much else but spend most of the episode freaking out, but to her credit she did trust the map and let Starlight go on her own in the first place, and it's not like she gave Starlight any bad advice, even if none of her advice turned out particularly helpful either.  All in all, while hardly a serious appearance for Twilight, it was a splendidly funny one!

I like to think that Twilight was freaking out from this so much that she spent about two straight days maintaining that spell so that she never missed a moment that Starlight was in her room... 'tis a most amusing thought, indeed! 

Miscellaneous Items

-The pacing of this episode was absolutely fantastic and proof that fast-paced does not always equal frantic or dumbed down.  There was a ton to fit into this one, but the episode managed to do so without ever feeling like it rushed or didn't cover something properly by largely staying on point, not having any subplot outside of the few times Twilight conversed with Starlight, and keeping the focus on a handful of characters.  Excellently fast-paced episode and kudos to the writers on a job well done there!

-I love little details like the fact that Celestia makes pancakes (or some kind of nice breakfast) every morning.  While it initially might sound like some kind of Mary Sue character trait, it actually invites closer inspection from the viewer.  Upon further consideration, it does not seem like Celestia makes her other meals on a regular basis (probably because she's so busy normally during lunch and dinner, and run-ragged by the time dinner arrives), just breakfast.  I like this detail for a couple of reasons.  For starters, it probably started as something she did because she knows the value of a good breakfast for starting your day off right, and eventually it warped into a peaceful little routine of hers that she seems to enjoy doing by herself.  A little something that's only hers and helps her start her day off right.  Considering this, it makes her gesture of making Luna breakfast every morning all the more touching; it's clearly a nice little way she tried to reconnect with her sister, even if Celestia focused more on its convenience for her as well as what it means to her rather than if it would make any sense to her sister.

Mmmmmmmm... hey, Celly, if Luna doesn't want any I'll totally have some panca-

Damn it, Celly, don't just throw the pancakes away!  I'm sure one of your servants or guards would enjoy what appear to be heavenly pancakes!!! 

-Speaking of breakfast, I kind of adore that Luna just DOESN'T do breakfast.  Don't get me wrong, I love breakfast and it's sad that anyone wouldn't enjoy it, but let's keep in mind what it means to Luna.  Let's say ponies are typically in bed between 9 and 10 (late night exceptions notwithstanding).  That means Luna is working essentially a 10 hour shift in which she's monitoring the dreams of every pony in Equestria, one-on-one.  By the time she gets off, breakfast to her is the same as what dinner is to some poor schmuck who just worked a full shift and is getting home after 8 pm, ready to have nothing but a frozen meal he can make in five minutes and just fuel himself with.  I absolutely died when she bit right into the side of a pineapple and ate a banana peel (girl must have a stomach of steel, though I couldn't help but think she was also trying to spite Celestia just a tad both times), and her I don't give a buck face made it even better!  The cherry on top was when she made the shittiest pancakes ever, which again, makes sense, but hopefully from this point on she'll be more willing to have actually good breakfasts with her sister, and get to spend some quality time with her to boot.

She either REALLY hates pancakes, really hates Celestia's pancakes, or just wanted to prove how much stronger her bite strength is than Celestia's.  JAWS OF STEEL ON THAT MARE!!!

AND A STOMACH OF STEEL TO BOOT!  That's just... noooooooooo, Luna, noooooooooo.  Why you do that poor banana that way, what that banana ever do to you?

Also, dat sibling death glare... drink it in, folks, because it is terrifying.  Note to self, NEVER say no to Celestia's pancakes.

-The 'talking to themselves' bit between Celestia and Luna was handled masterfully.  If they'd done it poorly, we would have seen Luna doing it earlier, then Celestia, THEN they would have been like at the end "Were you talking to yourself???"  But the way they did it here was so much better.  We first saw Celestia doing so when she was trying to do Luna's duties, which was made even funnier considering you realized just how much she relies in her professional work on working with others, and how weird working in solitude is for her.  But when Luna said to her at the end "Did you talk to yourself," that suggested that Luna does the same, and I LOVED that that's how they showed us that.  Heck, I could totally relate because I ALWAYS talk to myself, in fact, I love it, I don't understand why some people think it's weird talking to yourself when you're all alone.  Heck, it's my favorite time to vent about anything because I don't have to lash out with my most extreme emotions at anyone when they're actually there.

-I really need to know now if Twilight really does know ballet.  I know it's just the object she was using, but she looks too cute in a ballet outfit for me not to know.

-Luna's dream was bucking terrifying.  Between the creepy foals surrounding her in a dimly lit room and her bucking TEETH falling out, holy shit, that was all downright bone-chilling.  That was wayyyyyy creepier than anything in Starlight's dream.

-Daybreaker has a very distinct personality from both Nightmare Moon and Celestia.  She's about as campy and over-the-top as Nightmare Moon, but just as Nightmare Moon as a lot of the same self esteem issues as Luna, Daybreaker takes Celestia's general confidence to an extraordinary level of contemptuousness and pride.  Like Celestia, she is very sure of herself, but in a prideful manner that leads her to reject the notion of needing anyone else at all, and only needing power.  Whereas Nightmare Moon in a twisted sort of way still wants to be loved, even if it means enslaving ponies into loving her out of fear, Daybreaker couldn't care less what others think of her and is clearly happy to just flaunt her power.  Overall, whereas Nightmare Moon represents a cold, distant Order based on devotion to her and her cold, distant Moon alone, conversely Daybreaker represents a fiery, raging Chaos based on trampling all who would dare challenge her or just the idea that she couldn't handle and control everything there was to handle with her power and her Sun.  Her design was pretty awesome too, while I'm at it, and it was great seeing the show daring to go such a dark place as it did in Starlight's nightmare.

"Mwahahahahahah, bow before me mortals, behold all these flame wars on Twitter I totally started!  See the destruction I have wrought online and quiver in fear of my ability to anger others with my unbearable s***-talking and trolling ways!!!  NYANYANYANYANYANYANYAAAAAAAAAAAAA, I'M SO EVIL!!!" 

Sweet Celestia, she truly is an unspeakable evil unlike any other! 

-I really want Celestia's pancakes now because they looked so delicious.  Also, I think this might explain why Twilight loves pancakes.

Luna's, on the other hoof, I will pass on

"Oh... they're... lovely, Luna." 

"Oh I know they're not, I just wanted you to have as s**tty a breakfast as I usually do!" 

-The dream bubbles floating past Celestia was one of the best parts of the whole episode.  On the funny side of things, we got (1) Discord in a pillow fight with the Smooze, (2) Cadance jamming out with DJ Flurry Heart (and I have no bucking idea who was dreaming that one), (3) Pinkie Pie surfing on Gummy, (4) Fluttershy on a giant Angel Bunny (come to think of it, the idea of a giant Angel Bunny is kind of terrifying), (5) Flim and Flam swimming in loads of bits Scrooge McDuck style, and (6) best of all, HER ROYAL LORDSHIP, EMPRESS DERPY, FIRST OF HER NAME, LONG MAY SHE REIGN!!!  On the sadder side of things, we had (1) Doctor Whooves with what appeared to be a Weeping Angel, and (2) most bucking importantly of all, APPLEJACK AS A BABY CRADLED IN THE ARMS OF HER PARENTS!!!  I don't know if AJ was dreaming this or if Granny Smith was, but this is the closest we've ever come to seeing them, and it's as important as it is sad.  Her dad appears to be pear green (very much like Granny Smith) and her mother appears to be grey or tan.  Very similar to some of the background information we got about Derpy and other characters in "Parental Glideance," this has just put the death of AJ's parents once again front and center to AJ's character, and central to how she's turned out like she has.  If this is supposed to be set-up for the episode later on this season which will be focused on how her parents met, I have to say that I am loving it DHX, please give me MORE!

-Luna getting tired from smiling was too funny.  Don't have much else beyond that, I just think it was hilarious how hard it was for her to do it all day.

-I love that both Celestia and Luna turned on their sibling-sass the second they switched places and made it a competition as to who could handle the other's duties most easily.  That's just such a sibling thing to do and I could easily see myself doing that with my sister in similar circumstances.

-Starlight's "Heheheheheheh, oh buck, I may have just pissed off the two most powerful rulers in the world, please don't blast my flank to the moon or the sun" face after impulsively switching Celestia and Luna's cutie marks was perfect and I don't blame her for freaking out after what she did.

Dat moment you're this close to getting sent to the moon and the sun at the same time 

-Luna's facial expressions, particularly whenever she was tired in the morning after a long night of working, were too funny and I could look at them all day!

"Get that bucking thing outta my face."

"I'm not touching you!  I'm not touching you!"

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, memories... this makes me want to start randomly poking my sister in the arm for no reason other than to her annoy her 

And now, Batbrony proudly presents, "Drunk Luna Ain't Got Time For Your S***"

"Ah will boop you whenever I want as much as I want, Miss Twilight-Sparkle-with-Aqua-Highlights!  Ya know why?  Cause I'm the bucking Princess of the Night and just spent a whole night protecting your dreams AGAIN!  If ah wanted to, I could let your dreams drive you BUCKING insane with a flick of my wrist, no joke, you want Lovecraftian horrors up the ying yang, well that's what you'll get if you don't GIVE ME MAH BOOPS!!!"

"I don't understand, I just asked her if she could pass an apple over!"

"Well that was your real mistake, Luna's very protective of her fruit."

-I very much liked that neither Celestia or Luna were completely bad at what the other did.  Luna only screwed up at two tasks while doing just fine with the others and ultimately Celestia acquitted herself just fine in the Dreamscape.  A more annoying version of this kind of episode would have taken the blatant "Town Mouse - Country Mouse" approach of having them just fail at everything that the other normally does, and with characters that powerful, that just wouldn't make sense.

That being said, it is quite clear that unlike her sister, Luna is not a fan of checklists... and suddenly I now know where Twilight's checklist-fetish comes from... why am I not surprised by this? 

-At first I thought it was just plain stupid that Celestia and Luna haven't confronted this problem sooner.  It didn't bother me because I wanted this episode very badly, but the more I thought about it, the more I think it's actually justified.  You see, we know that years have passed in show-time since the show began.  Well, with most ponies pushing off such a problem that long wouldn't make sense.  The thing is, Celestia and Luna are immortal alicorns, so for them, time probably has different meaning than it does to normal ponies.  Years passing before they talk to each other about something personal probably doesn't feel like that long of a time for those two, so really, if one considers that, it actually makes sense that they would have allowed these circumstances to stay buried beneath the surface and just continue to annoy them more and more over the years, festering.

-Overall, this is one of those rare episodes that, for me, is just perfect in every which way.  It's perfect in knowing what it was and what it set out to do, remaining laser-focused on those goals no matter how fast the pace got, and ultimately being everything it possibly could be in knowing itself and embracing itself for what it was.  After the last two episodes, I love so much being able to say that.

That's all I've got for ya, everypony!  Hopefully, like I said earlier, now that this episode has happened we'll get more episodes starring Celestia and Luna!  I'd eat that up even if it was just "A Day in the Life of the Princesses" kinda deal where we see them just doing their own thing together, including activities as sisters.  But for now, until next time, this is Batbrony signing off.  I'm off!!! *cue dramatic exit*

D'awwwwwwwwwwww, is a wittle Daybreaker!!!  WHO'S A CUTE SUN TYRANT, WHO'S A CUTE SUN TYRANT?  YOU ARE!  YES, YOU ARE!!! 

"Mornings... not even once."

ALL GLORY BE TO EMPRESS DERPY!  LONG MAY SHE REIGN!!!

[The Nth Doctor 652]

20 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Would it have, though? 

Absolutely; we saw that happen with Luna back in episode one, remember?

[PoisonClaw 8,153]

Well, now that the episode has official aired, I can finally talk about A Royal Problem! I was against watching the episodes out of order, so originally I was going to wait until the official release...

... right up until I saw an unspoilered screenshot of what appeared to be Nightmare Star on Derpibooru, prompting a flat "What." from me and a desire to watch the episode just to see what the hell I was looking at. So, once the episode had reached Youtube, I loaded it up... and immediately had to pause the video because I almost fell out of my chair from Twilight's expression. Seriously, that look could very well be the greatest Twilight face EVER.

Anyway, this is easily my favorite episode of the entire season. For the last few years, I have prayed for two things to finally happen with this show: A Celestia episode, and a Royal Sisters episode, and this season managed to deliver both and I couldn't be happier. Some may argue that Celestia and Luna's bickering appears kinda childish for ponies who are hundreds of years old, but I would counter that by bringing up the events of Slice Of Life, where we see them bickering like normal siblings. For lack of a better term, if makes them feel more human, that behind the titles and power, they're still regular ponies with their own personalities. 

Starlight and Twilight weren't slouches either, with Twilight spending much of the episode panicing and being unhelpfull with Starlight reacting in her own snarky way. Before this episode aired, I said that how the spell Starlight used could make or break this episode, and while having the spell be unable to be undone for 24 hours may not be the best solution, it certainly sets a reason for why they can't just switch back and go right back to arguing. 

And now, we come to the mane event: Daybreaker, an actual look at an evil Celestia, something I have been greatly opposed to because I think the idea of Celestia ever going evil is impossible given her character but, in a move that amazes even me, I kinda love Daybreaker. Not only is her design really well done, but she's just too hilariously hammy not to love! It's clear that Nicole Oliver was having fun with the role, playing up Daybreaker to the nth degree.

"Daybreaker! The better, prettier, more powerful version of you!"

"Ugh... so much black. We get it, you're sad. You could really use some... SUN!" *Breathes fire*

Plus, here she's more a manifestation of Celestia's own fears as opposed to Celestia actually going crazy, a fear that if she isn't careful she could very well lose control and become something she despises more than anything else. Factoring all that, I can't really find a fault in this episode. If this doesn't end up being the best episode in the season, I look forward to what tops it!     

[Thrond 3,257]

1 hour ago, The Nth Doctor said:

Absolutely; we saw that happen with Luna back in episode one, remember?

Would it happen again, considering that Luna has (one would hope) learned her lesson? And would it happen to Celestia, who probably put up with much worse without transforming? Without knowing how Luna became Nightmare Moon in the first place, I can't help but think it wouldn't. 

2 hours ago, GrimGrimoire said:

I loathe the fact that people claim to know better than the characters themselves. They may be fictional characters and as such they actually have no thoughts and feelings of their own, but for the sake of this discussion we will say otherwise. If someone does something to help me, and when all is said and done I decide they made the right decision, who are you to come and tell me I am wrong? Who are you to decide what is best for me and my destiny and where it is heading? Obviously all of us think we know best for the characters in the show, and paint our own personal feelings and opinions upon that and them to varying degrees, but in the canon of the fiction we all watched, it is not hinted at, but stated outright she made the right choice. You can headconon all you like about how wrong it was and drop every opinion and review you want to about it, and it does not change the fact that is how they feel and their opinion is greater than those sitting in the back seat screaming directions or opinions.

4

Okay, before I start, I should clarify that I know my opinions aren't objective fact. They're how I perceive and react to the episode, but they're not the only valid perceptions or reactions. I understand that and appreciate that. However, I take issue with this specific paragraph, because the characters aren't real. If I think that their reactions are promoting a questionable moral (in this case, that the ends justify the means even if the means are morally dubious), then I'm still going to be troubled by it. I'm more willing than many to prize the characters' reactions, but ultimately they're not real and don't have actual opinions aside from what the writers present them with.

By my own ethics, I don't understand why none of the characters are bothered by Starlight's actions, and I don't understand or agree with the ethical arguments which would make that seem valid. The only objective fact of that is that it's how I feel, but while I will agree that @Nightmare Muffin was wrong to suggest that Starlight's fans somehow aren't seeing some "truth," there is no inherent validity to the opinions of fictional characters, because they do not exist, and even among real people, it's valid to be concerned by what others are willing to accept if you think it would lead to harm in the future, and that's how I feel about Starlight's actions. Not everyone will be as okay with them as Celestia and Luna, and I'm led to believe Starlight won't consider that in the future. 

And as for this:

2 hours ago, GrimGrimoire said:

Most (not all) of the complaints stem from the whole "Starlight swapped their cutie marks! She is pure evil I knew it!

Perhaps that does encompass a fair few responses, but mine (as well as, as I interpret it, that of @Music Chart Fan) more boils down to finding it hard to relate to and sympathise with a character to acts in a way which violates our own moral codes. For me, I don't think she's pure evil, but I think she has a wonky sense of right and wrong which could seriously hurt those around her some day, and having that praised doesn't sit right with me. 

Edited June 11, 2017 by AlexanderThrond

[FizzyGreen 908]

Brilliant episode! Not much to say about it! All in character, decent conflict, logical conclusion to it and nice plot. The only problem i have, i guess in general, is that Starlight was called by the map. That is most curious and needs an explaination! And i guess i'm gonna have to come up with one now.

[GrimGrimoire 4,970]

46 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

However, I take issue with this specific paragraph, because the characters aren't real. If I think that their reactions are promoting a questionable moral (in this case, that the ends justify the means even if the means are morally dubious), then I'm still going to be troubled by it. I'm more willing than many to prize the characters' reactions, but ultimately they're not real and don't have actual opinions aside from what the writers present them with.

By my own ethics, I don't understand why none of the characters are bothered by Starlight's actions, and I don't understand or agree with the ethical arguments which would make that seem valid. The only objective fact of that is that it's how I feel, but while I will agree that @Nightmare Muffin was wrong to suggest that Starlight's fans somehow aren't seeing some "truth," there is no inherent validity to the opinions of fictional characters, because they do not exist, and even among real people, it's valid to be concerned by what others are willing to accept if you think it would lead to harm in the future, and that's how I feel about Starlight's actions. Not everyone will be as okay with them as Celestia and Luna, and I'm led to believe Starlight won't consider that in the future.

As has been said, all of that is your opinion, and you are free to all of it. There is not doubt nor disagreement about any of that. The point is many (not necessarily yourself) are trying to raise their opinion and feelings over the fact of the show. The big problem that is created and forms some of the issues is the whole (sorta) real vs. fictional thinking when discussing the show (at least for me).... you either have it one way or the other, there is no in-between. If you can decide that they are out of character, or you just don't agree with what they say or think and feel it is wrong by your own opinion, then that train of thought can be placed on any character in any episode in anyway by anyone who wants to do it. I can say Twilight actually hates Spike no matter what she says or does just because I want to. I can say Rainbow Dash secretly thinks Fluttershy is a wimp and would rather she just move away if not outright be sent to the moon... it does not matter what is said in show or how it appears, the only thing that matters is my opinion. Obviously that is not the case, because the show has made it quite clear I would be wrong and many would call me out on it. I can think whatever I like for myself, and write a million page document upon why my opinion is correct, and it will be trumped by that simple fact that I am wrong because the show specifically said it is. Also, none of those facts would ever change my opinion either.

So it comes down to this, are they fictional characters that have no mind of their own and thus anything anyone wants to think or say about any character in any situation is OK because if you don't like it you can just make up whatever you want? Or are they fictional characters that we treat as semi real for the sake of discussion and personal enjoyment that have defined thoughts and actions we can see, hear and think about? If they are utterly fictional to the point of nothing they say is real and utterly dismissable, then there is no actual reason to care about anything they say at all. Furthermore there is no point in caring or worrying about what "Starlight does in the future" because she can't and won't do anything since she is not real and her actions will be dictated by whichever writer feels like having her do something at a given moment. No, they are not real, but the very fact we sit here and discuss all of this means that they do hold some reality in all of our minds.

Starlight did the right thing, because they said she did.. it is that easy. I am perfectly fine with people disagreeing with that sentiment, finding fault in it, or thinking it makes no sense and offering their opinions and counter proposals... but I do take issue when someone says they are wrong and she actually violated them and shamed them or used them. Because she didn't. That is taking an opinion and trying to superimpose it over the facts of the show as stated. We can sit around "worrying about the future" but it is painfully obvious no one else is in show, so why should we? The whole Starlight has not learned her lesson thing has went on so long now that the horse has long since rotted away and now some are just hitting the ground where the body once was.

 

47 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Perhaps that does encompass a fair few responses, but mine (as well as, as I interpret it, that of @Music Chart Fan) more boils down to finding it hard to relate to and sympathise with a character to acts in a way which violates our own moral codes. For me, I don't think she's pure evil, but I think she has a wonky sense of right and wrong which could seriously hurt those around her some day, and having that praised doesn't sit right with me. 

Again all well and good. You don't have to sympathize or relate to her. You can just sit there and expect the worst from it if that is what you choose to do. We all have moral codes we believe in and follow... and I cannot find fault in that, nor can I find fault in misgivings for future episodes. But sitting on your moral horse there and wagging your finger, let me put it like this... as I said in a previous post unrelated to this one, were it possible to somehow switch "destines" or "situations" or however you want to call it between two people for a temporary period of time as was done in this episode, then more than half the members of this site alone would take advantage of it. Because just about EVERYONE here has experienced some form of mistreatment, disgrace, humiliation, belittling, misjudgement, bigotry, persecution, dismissal or antipathy to some degree that has made them wish they could either show the offender how they feel and what they go through and deal with, or just spend a day being them and letting them suffer with what they struggle with in some form or another. No amount of talking, discussion, counseling or therapy can fix all of those things in all situations and not even close to as quickly. Starlight was able to do what most of us in some form or another only wish they could do at some point in their life. Make someone else see how it is to live with what they live with when someone either does not understand, or refuses to understand or worse, just does not care and ridicules or ostracizes you for it.

Obviously this show was dealing with a far more light hearted version of it, and did not expect you to take it too deeply. But where some might morally see some form of magical abuse.. I see it as cutting through all the bullshit and showing someone else how it really is to walk in someone else's shoes. If we could, a whole lot of abuse and discrimination could be avoided in this world.

 

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,671]

Yes! YES! This is the MLP I fell in love with! Best episode of season 7 yet! (This is also the latest episode I've seen so far.)

This seems like one of those episodes you need to sit on to really appreciate. The more I'm realizing this is an episode I've been wanting to see for a very long time! We get to get a more up close and personal look at their day to day life and their jobs. I was especially eager to see what Luna's job is all about. Seeing both fail at the other's task felt a lot more organic. Princess Luna is used to working on her own and at her own pace while Princess Celestia is much better adapted to the limelight. It also makes it easier to understand just why Princess Luna does get lonely and feels neglected. They both have very rough jobs. I'm a bit worried that they hardly get any time off and their shifts make it nigh impossible to see each other. I feel bad for the both of them. Even ponies who do appreciate what they do still underestimate them and their responsibilities.

This is an episode done right. I can relate to these characters and not feel like a conflict is being forced into the episode as an excuse for the episode to exist. About time. I could connect with not just Princess Luna but also Princess Celestia and Starlight. Tis episode brought a tear to my eye and I really miss that this season.

So yeah, the conflict felt much more organic instead of shoe-horned in. All characters had to confront their shortcomings and their fears and they all made it out the other end together. That was quite touching.

There were plenty of other wonderful moments. There's Daybreak, something many people have been itching to see for a very long time. That fight between Nightmare Moon and Daybreak was exciting to see... I could go on.

There were also some things that felt off. I never thought of Celestia as the extrovert she's been protrayed but on second thought, it makes sense that it only shows itself when she's taken away from ponies. She's so well-adapted to it that you just can't tell it's one important reason she's so comfortable and composed. It's like how it's only during a power outage do we really get to understand how important electricity (or an internet connection) is to our every day functioning. I also find that Twilight's neuroticism was exaggerated for convenience. Hearing Princess Celestia speak with such a condescending, dismissive and angry (not to be confused with assertive) tone also caught me off-guard.

Ehh. Since she's only starting to become characterized after years of being little more than a plot device, it's naturally going to be really hard.

I think I'm giving this a 9/10

[Sonic5421 423]

7 hours ago, CypherHoof said:

Yup, again, I don't disagree. I just think that, given the negatives in her past, she needs to find something other than this. she has a wider range of spells than just this - pushing ponies apart with a blue field similar to Twilight's purple one, for example. However, I can also agree this was a case of special circumstances, and possibly one of the few times it was a valid choice (I waffled a bit on this near the top of the page ) but not necessarily the best or only choice.

That much I'm willing to agree with. Starlight needs to learn that magic won't solve every problem out there she encounters. Sometimes, she needs to think things over with other ways before resorting to magic as a last resort when everything else fails.

[blackstarraven 142]

Some one actually said in a post before this that they thought this episode had been penned quite some time ago.

 

And I agree.

Actually I recall a interview where some one was talking about a comic ideal like this, but in a more standard 'trading days' type set up.

This episode honestly is pretty classic, but then goes in a direction I really was not expecting.

[Dowlphin 459]

I thought the black spots weren't part of Luna's cutie mark. Last time, when it was taken away, only the moon vanished. I assumed it's just her natural coat (and that it's naturally symmetrical). Hm, maybe that was just draining the power from the cutie mark.

EDIT: I think Luna's coat IS spotted as indicated in an earlier episode, but the spots were transferred here purely for practical reasons, since Luna's cutie mark is white and Celestia's coat is, too. It would have been nearly invisible on her. (Personally I would have chosen a black cloud/radiant effect around the moon to provide minimum contrast, but maybe that wouldn't have fit the art style. Still could have just given the moon a black outline though.)

Interesting dreams ponies have. Pinkie surfing on the gummyboard, wearing shades, I like that a lot, heh. And Derpy as queen, on her side another ... background character. ;-)

Starlight's dragon toothbrush was funny.

Twilight her frequent freakout self, but totally understandable why she couldn't calm herself. Still so much admiration for the regal sisters and projection of crucial importance to Equestria. (She underestimates the importance of everypony else's contribution.)

The episode was full with playfulness, action and lovely little details and a new insight into ponies' daily life.

Early-on this episode reminded me of one of my favorite pictures from olden times that I call "Maneheart"...

Edited June 21, 2017 by Dowlphin

[Jeric 46,835]

42 minutes ago, Dowlphin said:

I thought the black spots weren't part of Luna's cutie mark. Last time, when it was taken away, only the moon vanished. I assumed it's just her natural coat (and that it's naturally symmetrical). Hm, maybe that was just draining the power from the cutie mark.

I noticed that too. I'm guessing it was an animation oversight and that slight detail from Twilight's Kingdom was missed. 

Either that or Starlight can dye coats at the same time as swapping Cutie Marks.

[Quinch 1,119]

2 minutes ago, Jeric said:

Either that or Starlight can dye coats at the same time as swapping Cutie Marks.

MARY SUE! MARY SUE!!

{awkwardly waves torch in one hand and pitchfork in other}

[Jeric 46,835]

3 hours ago, GrimGrimoire said:

As has been said, all of that is your opinion, and you are free to all of it. There is not doubt nor disagreement about any of that. The point is many (not necessarily yourself) are trying to raise their opinion and feelings over the fact of the show. The big problem that is created and forms some of the issues is the whole (sorta) real vs. fictional thinking when discussing the show (at least for me).... you either have it one way or the other, there is no in-between. If you can decide that they are out of character, or you just don't agree with what they say or think and feel it is wrong by your own opinion, then that train of thought can be placed on any character in any episode in anyway by anyone who wants to do it. I can say Twilight actually hates Spike no matter what she says or does just because I want to. I can say Rainbow Dash secretly thinks Fluttershy is a wimp and would rather she just move away if not outright be sent to the moon... it does not matter what is said in show or how it appears, the only thing that matters is my opinion. Obviously that is not the case, because the show has made it quite clear I would be wrong and many would call me out on it. I can think whatever I like for myself, and write a million page document upon why my opinion is correct, and it will be trumped by that simple fact that I am wrong because the show specifically said it is. Also, none of those facts would ever change my opinion either.

So it comes down to this, are they fictional characters that have no mind of their own and thus anything anyone wants to think or say about any character in any situation is OK because if you don't like it you can just make up whatever you want? Or are they fictional characters that we treat as semi real for the sake of discussion and personal enjoyment that have defined thoughts and actions we can see, hear and think about? If they are utterly fictional to the point of nothing they say is real and utterly dismissable, then there is no actual reason to care about anything they say at all. Furthermore there is no point in caring or worrying about what "Starlight does in the future" because she can't and won't do anything since she is not real and her actions will be dictated by whichever writer feels like having her do something at a given moment. No, they are not real, but the very fact we sit here and discuss all of this means that they do hold some reality in all of our minds.

Starlight did the right thing, because they said she did.. it is that easy. I am perfectly fine with people disagreeing with that sentiment, finding fault in it, or thinking it makes no sense and offering their opinions and counter proposals... but I do take issue when someone says they are wrong and she actually violated them and shamed them or used them. Because she didn't. That is taking an opinion and trying to superimpose it over the facts of the show as stated. We can sit around "worrying about the future" but it is painfully obvious no one else is in show, so why should we? The whole Starlight has not learned her lesson thing has went on so long now that the horse has long since rotted away and now some are just hitting the ground where the body once was.

 

Again all well and good. You don't have to sympathize or relate to her. You can just sit there and expect the worst from it if that is what you choose to do. We all have moral codes we believe in and follow... and I cannot find fault in that, nor can I find fault in misgivings for future episodes. But sitting on your moral horse there and wagging your finger, let me put it like this... as I said in a previous post unrelated to this one, were it possible to somehow switch "destines" or "situations" or however you want to call it between two people for a temporary period of time as was done in this episode, then more than half the members of this site alone would take advantage of it. Because just about EVERYONE here has experienced some form of mistreatment, disgrace, humiliation, belittling, misjudgement, bigotry, persecution, dismissal or antipathy to some degree that has made them wish they could either show the offender how they feel and what they go through and deal with, or just spend a day being them and letting them suffer with what they struggle with in some form or another. No amount of talking, discussion, counseling or therapy can fix all of those things in all situations and not even close to as quickly. Starlight was able to do what most of us in some form or another only wish they could do at some point in their life. Make someone else see how it is to live with what they live with when someone either does not understand, or refuses to understand or worse, just does not care and ridicules or ostracizes you for it.

Obviously this show was dealing with a far more light hearted version of it, and did not expect you to take it too deeply. But where some might morally see some form of magical abuse.. I see it as cutting through all the bullshit and showing someone else how it really is to walk in someone else's shoes. If we could, a whole lot of abuse and discrimination could be avoided in this world.

 

There are chunks of that post that need to be laser cut into a glass plaque. I often bring up the importance of reader interpretation vs the authorial intent -- invoking Barthes famous essay. What I don't tend to discuss nearly as much is that there are natural limitations to proper interpretation when discussing the elements that make up any story or character. Your post nails the a huge issue I see with some analysis (not exclusive to MLPF). Unless we are presented with evidence to the contrary or given an unreliable narrator, we do need to heavily consider what the show gives us. 

[Steve Piranha 28,782]

Couldn't resist watching this episode again. I FUCKING LOVE IT 

6 hours ago, FizzyGreen said:

Brilliant episode! Not much to say about it! All in character, decent conflict, logical conclusion to it and nice plot. The only problem i have, i guess in general, is that Starlight was called by the map. That is most curious and needs an explaination! And i guess i'm gonna have to come up with one now.

For all things considered, maybe Starlight and Trix will be in the changeling hive solving an issue with Thorax's brother is because the map sent them both 

[Truffles 2,033]

22 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

To start, when Luna is posing for the picture with the schoolponies, Luna should only have to smile right before the picture is taken; in fact, I've heard that letting your face rest just before posing a smile for a picture will make it "fresher", anyway.

The only issue I had with this scene was it might have made more sense for her to look bored rather than that awful scowl. I could see how she could get tired and relax her smile, leading the readers to think she was bored with having to work with schoolponies, but not how she'd go from a smile to a scowl. Unless she was really ticked off at this point at the photographer?

Not a big deal, but since I've already started down the road of how I'd make this episode absolutely perfect beginning with my Spike comments earlier, well... as they say - in for a penny, in for a pound!

22 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

I guess the photographer and the newspaper could have an agenda of making the Princesses look bad and embarrassing them whenever possible, but it would still be pretty callous of them to (apparently) make collateral damage of the earnest students' fundraiser in the process.

There's multiple aspects of confusion for me going on here. First of all, why is this being reported by the Foal Free Press? It's a Ponyville-local newspaper that really shouldn't be available in Canterlot. I guess it's possible after the Gabby Gums incident, it permanently expanded to a national readership (which says something about Diamond Tiara's real calling as an editor if that's the case) but if that's the case then it seems by the nature of this article there's another Gabby Gums at work again - somepony who also has a take-no-prisoners attitude when it comes to publishing gossipy or fake news to sell more copies.

Also, if this is the Foal Free Press, then why isn't Featherweight the photographer? I know it's been a few years since "Ponyville Confidential", but even if he got promoted, there should still be a school pony manning the camera. (And in fact, there should be colts and fillies manning the paper in general.) It's kind of unsettling that there's an adult pony photographer working for a school newspaper now, but in this universe such concerns are probably not warranted, I suppose.

22 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

But after Luna declares in the "traditional royal Canterlot voice" that there are no timberwolves, the delegates just run away, screaming that there are definitely timberwolves. I get that Luna's doing that might have been a little intimidating, but wouldn't the delegates want to talk about Luna's proclamation, dispute it, see whether she has evidence for it, etc.?

My impression was the way she said it sounded fake because modern ponies still aren't used to the "Canterlot Voice" and so maybe they thought she was trying to cover up the truth?

22 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Couldn't such disputes be handled (and handled better) by an Equestrian court system or a trained third-party arbitrator or something like that?

Maybe that is all Equestria has under their current civic model - that the princesses decide disputes when two parties can't come to an agreement on their own? There is some evidence for that from how we saw disagreements settled in "Trade Ya" and "Princess Spike", though in the former I recall them saying it was somewhat of a historical tradition and not how things worked anymore, and in the latter it just made everypony seem stupid and helpless, lol.

22 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Again, it seems very premature to conclude that Celestia's and Luna's issues were completely unsolvable at that point, and I see no real evidence that Luna was on the verge of transforming into Nightmare Moon or anything, which would supposedly necessitate taking urgent extreme action.

For most ponies (certainly ones like AJ, Rainbow Dash, and Rarity) they would see it the way you did and not over-react like Twilight did by suggesting to Starlight this was a definite possibility. But we're talking Twilight and Starlight here, and we've already seen those two are more alike than they'd probably want to admit. Help me out, here, Spike: XD

 

22 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Did Starlight, in helping to fix the map back in "Spice Up Your Life", somehow get herself on the "call list" of the Cutie Map?

That's what I'm wondering, too. It could be that during her helping Twilight to fix the map she somehow imprinted on it due to her having to use magic in the repair, and doing so has allowed her access to the map missions.

I suppose if the show ever has another pony who is totally disconnected from the Mane 6/7/8 and who hasn't been a hero in some other way get called for duty, then we will know the map can actually call on any pony for a mission, even if their lives aren't wrapped up in the Tree of Harmony in some way.

22 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Finally, as Celestia's and Luna's cutie marks are returning, Starlight puzzlingly says "wait, I'm not doing this". I'm not sure what that statement is supposed to mean. Did it just strike 24 hours after Starlight first cast her spell, and the spell is reversing itself? Or is Starlight's statement implying that the Cutie Map is reversing Starlight's spell because Starlight's mission was accomplished?

Yeah, this was a bit confusing as well. Since it seems a whole day had passed, I wouldn't have expected her to be surprised that the marks were reverting to their original owners. But the way the scene plays out it seems like the Tree of Harmony short-circuited the spell and changed them back as soon as the issue was resolved, even if it was going to expire soon anyway. I suppose there are good reasons for that - no need For the ToH to risk an epic pony war since with Luna is more of a warrior than a diplomat.

 

[Thrond 3,257]

5 hours ago, GrimGrimoire said:

No, they are not real, but the very fact we sit here and discuss all of this means that they do hold some reality in all of our minds.

 

Sure. Although, all of that is only true for the statement "Celestia and Luna were pleased by Starlight's actions;" with an ethically contentious issue like this, I think it's valid to think they ought to have been less approving of Starlight's methods. 

5 hours ago, GrimGrimoire said:

but I do take issue when someone says they are wrong and she actually violated them and shamed them or used them. Because she didn't.

I don't see how she shamed them or used them, but I think "violated" is more of a judgment call, because she did change their bodies without their consent and that can be seen as a violation. Some people do tend to speak too strongly about her, but if you think swapping cutie marks without consent is wrong, I don't see what else you'd call it.

5 hours ago, GrimGrimoire said:

then more than half the members of this site alone would take advantage of it.

Perhaps, but I at least wouldn't do it without consent, and I'd like to think that most people would agree with that. 

[Music Chart Fan 818]

13 minutes ago, Truffles said:

There's multiple aspects of confusion for me going on here. First of all, why is this being reported by the Foal Free Press? It's a Ponyville-local newspaper that really shouldn't be available in Canterlot. I guess it's possible after the Gabby Gums incident, it permanently expanded to a national readership (which says something about Diamond Tiara's real calling as an editor if that's the case) but if that's the case then it seems by the nature of this article there's another Gabby Gums at work again - somepony who also has a take-no-prisoners attitude when it comes to publishing gossipy or fake news to sell more copies.

Also, if this is the Foal Free Press, then why isn't Featherweight the photographer? I know it's been a few years since "Ponyville Confidential", but even if he got promoted, there should still be a school pony manning the camera. (And in fact, there should be colts and fillies manning the paper in general.) It's kind of unsettling that there's an adult pony photographer working for a school newspaper now, but in this universe such concerns are probably not warranted, I suppose.

Yeah, that makes me wonder whether the "Foal Free Press" title of the newspaper was intentional, or whether perhaps the animators reused a convenient newspaper asset and didn't notice or change the newspaper title. If it was the latter, then I wonder if they realized that viewers like us would take notice of little details like that and see what we can read into them!

[Truffles 2,033]

4 minutes ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Yeah, that makes me wonder whether the "Foal Free Press" title of the newspaper was intentional, or whether perhaps the animators reused a convenient newspaper asset and didn't notice or change the newspaper title. If it was the latter, then I wonder if they realized that viewers like us would take notice of little details like that and see what we can read into them!

They certainly managed to start a whole new line of thinking among viewers as to who's currently running the FFP right now and whether it's gone back to its bad old days like it was under Diamond. The asset idea is a good theory; the other possibility is "Ponyville Confidential" is one of the writer's favorite episodes, and threw the FFP in as a nod to the sort of articles it was publishing for a brief time.

Celestia even got skewered back then, and it started a whole meme about her and cake. XD

[ManaMinori 4,143]

already said my piece in earlier posts. For now, I leave my reaction vid.

 

[Justin_Case001 4,857]

So, I have a lot of mixed feelings about this episode.  Needless to say, I've been waiting for a Sisters spotlight since day 1, and I was supremely worried that it was too late for it to be good.  I'm still a bit....on the fence about it, but I think I like it overall.

At first, I disliked the premise, and was very annoyed about several aspects of the episode, but upon rethinking it, I'm actually okay with most of it.  I feel like I was extra touchy about this one because I had waited so long for it, and really wanted it to be good.

First of all, I initially hated the idea of the Sisters fighting, because it seemed to me to be unbecoming of the princesses, especially considering that Luna has only been back for ~7 years (estimating 1 year per season).  But after I thought about it for a bit, it makes sense that they would have trouble appreciating each other and getting along, because we know it happened in the past.  And the thing of it is, they never really did anything to change that.  Luna felt unappreciated a thousand years ago, and, well...her nighttime still isn't really appreciated all that much.  I mean, what's changed when you think about it?  It makes sense that history could repeat itself, and they'd begin fighting again, and it makes sense that it would start with the smallest, most mundane things, such as pancakes.  If left alone, they could easily go down the road toward Nightmare Moon again, someday.  Could take decades, centuries, or even millennia, but it seemed an inevitability at some point if they didn't change.  It's like a couple that always fights, then separates, then misses each other and gets back together, saying, "I'll never fight with you again!"  It's completely naive to think that you'll never have any more problems just because you missed each other when you were apart.  You need to actually have therapy and do something to change.  The Sisters didn't really do that.  They never really got to the root of their problems and did anything to change it.  I've postulated before on these forums that Luna could become NMM again someday, and it seemed likely if nothing changed.  So, perhaps this is how it started before--with pancakes and lavender and dumb sh*t like that, and over a millennium or so, you get NMM.  Perhaps history was repeating itself, only this time, they had a pony who pushed them to change--something everypony else was afraid to do.

I also initially hated the idea of the cutie mark switch, because it seemed at first to punch a giant hole in my theory of how marks work, a theory which has pretty much been confirmed time and again on the show.  Starlight's stunt seemed to suggest that cutie marks function like ability augments, literal Warframe mods that can be moved and given to another.  This frustrated me greatly, as I feel it contradicts what the show has established.  On closer inspection, however, I believe my theory still stands.  The key is that their magic color swapped as well, not just the marks.  As we already know, magic seems to be a sort of unified imprint that is completely independent of the pony's physical matter.  We know that magic can be completely removed and transferred to another.  (See Twilight's Kingdom)  It's unclear if only alicorn magic works this way, but it seems highly illogical that only alicorn magic can be transferred, and not unicorn.  There should be no difference, only that alicorn magic is typically stronger (though not necessarily).  So, the princesses transferred their magic to Twilight, and when they did, their marks disappeared.  Their self-perceptions were unaltered, but with no magic whatsoever, it makes perfect sense that the marks would cease to be.  After all, cutie marks have to have a magical basis, as they appear magically.  This means that all ponies have some amount of latent magic within them, but only horned ponies can cast spells.  The logical assumption here is that all ponies can have their magical imprint, katra, or whatever you want to call it, removed and transferred.  So, getting to the point, it makes sense that Starlight could swap their magic, and in so doing, their cutie marks would switch because the entirety of their magic was transferred, as it had been in Twilight's Kingdom.  (Twilight probably would have gotten one of their marks, had she not already had her own.)

It's important to note that having their magic transferred and marks switched in no way affected their talents.  This supports my theory that cutie marks are not ability augments that grant talent.  The Sisters got each other's marks, but that didn't make them good at each other's jobs.  Quite the opposite.  They sucked big time, and that was the point.  Just as in Magical Mystery Cure, having another's mark did not give them that talent.  Talent can defined merely as an ability to create neuron connections, memories, and muscle memory for a given skill faster and more easily than others.  Luna has a talent for dream manipulation.  Having her magic transferred didn't take that away, it merely took away her ability to do it at the moment.  Here's an example: I'm a talented figure skater.  If my feet were cut off, would I still have that talent?  Yes.  My brain still knows how to do it, and is able to learn it faster and easier than others.  If they invented Star Trek technology that could give me new feet, I could skate well again, because I still have that talent in my brain.  The Sister's talents were unaffected, because their talent is inherent in the physical, subatomic makeup of their brains.  Their magical imprints were merely transferred, temporarily disallowing them from performing their jobs.  Actually, this is only technically true of Luna's dream ability, an ability which no other pony seems to possess.  Celestia's job requires no magic that is specific to her.  Only talent.  The raising and lowering of the sun and moon is merely a feat of extreme telekinesis, and can be done by anypony sufficiently strong enough.  Proof of this is the fact that this job was performed by Starswirl and a council of unicorns before the job was passed to the Sisters.  This is found in The Journal of the Sisters.  I'm getting a bit off topic, here.  The point is simply that the cutie marks did not give them each other's talents, thus preserving my theory.

So...it turns out that it was a pretty good episode, and once I thought through it a bit, I liked it.  Daybreak was pretty cool.  I've often wondered if that would really be possible.  We have no way of knowing.  I've talked before about how Luna seems unique among all ponies, past and present, due to her ability to become NMM.  But perhaps the Sisters share this trait.  Perhaps Celestia has this ability too, but it's just never happened.  I do believe that there is something unique about the Sisters, setting them apart from all other alicorns.  The story of their parents and their birth is one that must be told, and probably never will.

There's a few things I still didn't like about the episode.  Foremost is the fact that they had the immature arguing scene.  Y'know, where they were yelling at each other and going, *mocking tone* "All you do is flitter about and blabbity blah!"  I just knew they were going to do that, and it really annoyed me.  I like the fact that they've made them real characters, with real person...*ahem*...ponyalities, but it seemed ridiculous to me that these millennia old beings, in their vast wisdom, would resort to childish bickering.  They can have trouble getting along, sure, but the immature bickering was absolutely cringy to me.  Did not like that.  Moreover, why in the hell did Celestia make pancakes for Luna every morning in the first place?  That made no sense.  After thousands of years, did Celestia not figure out that Luna sleeps during the day?!  I mean, come on, she knows Luna's bedtime is dawn, for friggin' sake, so why does she cook her breakfast AT HER BEDTIME??!  To everyone who has a spouse who works graveyard: do you fix them a short stack when they're on their way to bed?!  The hell?

I also think that Starlight's spell is ridiculously overpowered.  It's in keeping with the established canon in Twilight's Kingdom, but it still seems ludicrous that a unicorn can just swap a pony's magic willy nilly.  If it's that easy, then why doesn't some villain just do that?  The only way that this level of magic is acceptable to me if you take it as evidence of my headcanon that Starlight is in fact  the descendant of Starswirl, who obviously did a lot of work in this area.  I've even postulated that Starlight could be the daughter of Starswirl.  (We don't actually know for sure that he's dead.)  I would die happy if they did a

Game of Thrones spoiler

Tower of Joy R+L=J lineage reveal in the movie that shows Starlight to be the daughter of Starswirl.

So, moving on, the only other thing that ticks me off is this completely asinine idea, which only Twilight seems to have, that anypony not summoned by the map is utterly forbidden to go, help, or intervene in any way.  Where the F*CK did she get that idea??!!  Is it a RULE written down someplace?!  Is the map a f*cking TEST that ponies have to pass?!  Why does Twilight act as if the map will kill her if she gives Starlight a suggestion?  God damn, that really annoys me.  Like when Twilight was soooo bummed that she couldn't accompany Rainbow and Pinkie to Griffonstone; WHY THE HELL COULDN'T SHE GO AND JUST HANG OUT?!  Is the map going to shoot death rays at her if she goes?!  Does the map have a sentry eye that pops out and floats after ponies that break the rules and shoot laser beams at them?!  Dammit, I really hate that plot map. 

So, I had a lot of gripes, and a lot to discuss, but overall, I did like it, and I'm really glad that we had a Sister's spotlight.

[CypherHoof 26,479]

11 hours ago, Music Chart Fan said:

Yeah, that makes me wonder whether the "Foal Free Press" title of the newspaper was intentional, or whether perhaps the animators reused a convenient newspaper asset and didn't notice or change the newspaper title. If it was the latter, then I wonder if they realized that viewers like us would take notice of little details like that and see what we can read into them!

Or maybe its a generic for a school newspaper? they seem to use a fairly old design of lithographic machine, maybe the "title page" block they typeset the front page into comes with that as standard rather than designing a new one for each school?

[Jeric 46,835]

13 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Sure. Although, all of that is only true for the statement "Celestia and Luna were pleased by Starlight's actions;" with an ethically contentious issue like this, I think it's valid to think they ought to have been less approving of Starlight's methods. 

I have to disagree with that premise. Utilitarianism is a legitimate ethical philosophy, and that philosophy what is demonstrated here. I mean, "The good of the many outweigh the good of the one or few" isn't considered a massive deviation on ethical thinking by scholars. I get it doesn't fit with your own personal values, but it is a legit school of thought. It's also one that rulers tend to consider very often. The two characters that give Starlight a pass probably are the two most likely to agree with Utilitarianism.

9 hours ago, Justin_Case001 said:

The Sisters got each other's marks, but that didn't make them good at each other's jobs.  Quite the opposite.  They sucked big time, and that was the point.  Just as in Magical Mystery Cure, having another's mark did not give them that talent. 

Luna and Tia didn't suck big time. In fact they both demonstrated success at times. It's a stretch to say that their difficulties were on par with the failures of the characters in MMC ... which didn't even line up with talent or elements as much as it did job. Rarity doing weather is not Loyalty or Rainbow Dash's actual talent. MMC is a bad episode to use to try and understand Cutie Marks in general because of this inconsistency. 

[Dusky Flare 11]

9 minutes ago, Jeric said:

I mean, "The good of the many outweigh the good of the one or few" isn't considered a massive deviation on ethical thinking by scholars. I get it doesn't fit with your own personal values, but it is a legit school of thought.

The problem is that in history Utilitarism is quite often used to justify cruelties against single persons or minorities ... for the greater good ... you know what I mean...

So despite that I'm fine with the basic idea of Utilitarism I really don't like the results coming out of it. For example killing the societal useless for unburden the bigger rest of the society... That might be a rather grave example, but it happened in history, didn't it?

So... although there was no disaster in the end, I agree very much, that SGs ways are questionable. For me the moral of this episode concerning SG is more like "Trust your guts. As long as you do something in good intention, it's most unlikely to come out bad in the end"...

And that, too, is not always the case.