S09:E18 - She Talks to Angel

[BornAgainBrony 2,395]

31 minutes ago, Truffles said:

Given those possible unfortunate outcomes of the first two vs. the possible unfortunate outcome of the last, I would say having the danger of Fluttershy getting eaten is a lot more reckless than the Cheer Squad potentially disbanding. I guess I find it hard to believe she somehow knew everything would work out given that Fluttershy was now prey to the rest of the forest. Didn't she learn anything from her experience with the roc, lol? This is probably the episode where Zecora is the least in the right.

This doesn't excuse it, but if I were Zecora... this is FLUTTERSHY we're talking about. She may not understand what it's like to be Angel, but I'd still give her the award for "Least Likely to Enter the Everfree Forest Alone," even as a Pony, much less a Bunny. Maybe she thought her size would give her the stealth advantage? Fluttershy showed more guts in this episode than I even knew she had. Not that she didn't try to get help, but she had no way to convey it. Has there been another incident where she got that courageous since the time she told off the adult dragon?

The story at least went so far as to have Zecora warn them not to take the potion until they were in a place where they were safe. She was imagining a quiet evening at home where nothing even remotely dangerous could happen. That's why she specified this. Everything that happened after that was a result of Angel being overly hasty.

As for Zecora not escorting her back to the sanctuary... I got nothin'

[Sonic5421 423]

Honestly, it was nice to hear Zecora and her rhyming one last time in the series as she decides to help out Fluttershy and Angel with their lack of communication they've been having regarding Angel wanting attention and Fluttershy being so busy with the Sanctuary and the School of Friendship that she hasn't had room for him to do so. Also, great to see Dr. Fauna as well and her reaction once Fluttershy told her of Zecora's part with helping Fluttershy and Angel find some common ground.

As for Harry and the other animals in the Sanctuary, I do like how, despite how Angel got on Harry, Sandra, Clementine, and the other animals' nerves with his mischief and behavior, they agreed to help him rescue the baby elephant from Antoine and he apologized for his behavior and proved to them what Fluttershy had been trying to tell them earlier about how predators and prey can work together for a common cause instead of trying to have the predators eat their prey.

While there may have been a few moments that made me cringe because of Angel and his mischief, overall, I'll give this episode an 8.5, maybe a 9/10.

[Splashee 28,537]

Nick Confalone used to be the best writer on the show back in the Season 6 and 7 days, and he doesn't disappoint in this episode.

I think the biggest impression this episode did on me was Andrea Libman's "Angel Pony" characterization. I never liked Angel until now.

Other than that? Cute animals! Hello Zecora! Dr. Fauna, meh.
 

Yet another episode that could have been in earlier seasons, that is my only big complain.

[KH7672 1,604]

Leave it to Nick Confalone to FINALLY write Fluttershy like an actual character, in these past two seasons. She was gentle yet tough. She was confident yet passive. The perfect balance of Fluttershy needed that I haven't seen since A Health of Information. 

Although part of this may be because he was really writing for Angel half the time, but still he as shown wonderfully how to actually bounce Fluttershy off of another character. The conflict felt real, the interactions and mutual feelings felt genuine. It was exactly the kind of episode we needed to fulfill the sanctuary arc, one I've desperately needed mending since Fluttershy Leans In. I think it's the fact that we see the animals and Fluttershy actually interacting instead of Fluttershy just being the audience link to see animals do things. The animals themselves felt like characters and it's just as great.

And yes @BornAgainBrony Angel was absolutely doing a Snoopy dance  Unfortunately no one's gif-ed it yet or I would put it in here.

Edited September 1, 2019 by KH7672

[Truffles 2,033]

1 hour ago, BornAgainBrony said:

This doesn't excuse it, but if I were Zecora... this is FLUTTERSHY we're talking about. She may not understand what it's like to be Angel, but I'd still give her the award for "Least Likely to Enter the Everfree Forest Alone," even as a Pony, much less a Bunny.

That's a good point. It could be Zecora might not have ever assumed Fluttershy would go into the Everfree alone. Though I seem to have recollections of her doing just that in past episodes, but maybe Zecora never heard about it? I still say it was more reckless than Twilight, however, since the saying about what assuming things does applies here.

Also, since she gave those instructions, she should have reacted with shock when Fluttershy showed up as Angel: "What are you doing here?! I told you to stay in your house! I'm so upset I'm not even rhyming!"

1 hour ago, BornAgainBrony said:

The story at least went so far as to have Zecora warn them not to take the potion until they were in a place where they were safe. She was imagining a quiet evening at home where nothing even remotely dangerous could happen. That's why she specified this. Everything that happened after that was a result of Angel being overly hasty.

That's true. Though if she knew them well enough to offer counseling, then she should know Angel is not to be trusted to follow any kind of instructions and not be hasty. Maybe if she had given the potions to her in a locked container and given Fluttershy the key I'd feel better about her giving potentially dangerous magic.

Thinking about the dangers further (and maybe more to your side of the discussion) I wonder if Fluttershy had been scooped up by a predator, would she have been able to talk to it and convince it to let her go? She could still use the stare, so she also had that as a weapon of last resort. She'd have to act pretty fast though before getting impaled by some talons or a  beak.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

I wish Angel would interact with more characters than just animals. He could talk to Starlight (preference to Nick's 'No Second Prance') or Discord (preference to S3ep11). The body-swap concept could have some insane interactions but Nick didn't use it at full potential, what a waste of comedy mine. At least, elephant abuse can be pretty entertaining...

Edited September 1, 2019 by Lambdadelta

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

5 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

After reading through other comments offsite, yeah, there’s definitely something to consider regarding Zecora’s plan. Understanding how both Fluttershy and Angel were equally at fault for their friction, she created a potion to make them see each others’ shoes, here by swapping their bodies. From that point, Angel and Fluttershy undergo a massive trial to make them understand each other more.

So what’s the problem? Zecora’s plan helped put Fluttershy and so many others in massive danger.

1. On her way to her house, a hawk almost picked up Fluttershy; she was severely lucky not to become his next meal.
2. Zecora suggested that she knew Fluttershy was in Angel’s body. However, rather than help her get to the sanctuary safely, they split, and she let her hop off into the Everfree Forest unsupervised. Again, lucky not to be eaten.
3. She ran nonstop back to the Ponyville Animal Sanctuary and needed the medicinal carrot concentrate to recuperate. Had Angel round up the troops and get Muriel out from Antoine’s stomach, chances of Fluttershy becoming really sick and dying from exhaustion and dehydration increase.
4. At the very end of the episode, Zecora winked, implicating some forethought into her plan. That some things will go wrong, but be alright at the end. But you can’t predict everything will go smoothly. God forbid one of the animals or Fluttershy got badly hurt or died; what would she have to say to Dr. Fauna, Angel (who’d be stuck in Fluttershy’s body), or FS’s friends? Murial was swallowed whole and in the process of being dissolved.
   
   Yes, Angel’s selfishness (wanting carrots, attention, and control to herself) was the reason why the sanctuary became so disarrayed in the first place. If he took her job seriously, then he wouldn’t be forced to out himself as Angel in her body and have to convince the other animals to place any faith into him. Zecora never saw anything they went through, so she perhaps has no idea of the specifics. But Zecora’s reckless plan contributed to it in the form of collateral damage, yet was written completely in the right.
5. Zecora’s rhymes are like riddles. Once you understand them, then it becomes easy. But that makes the lesson Z tried to teach too vague. Had she explained the potion’s purpose and cure much more clearly beforehand, then they could have taken more precautions to learn the lesson more safely. 

Going back to this portion of my previous post. There are a few things to counter.

1. Zecora actually told some clear directions of when to take it.

   Quote

   "There's no time to waste. Go directly home. But you both must taste when you're finally alone."

   When were they supposed to drink it? The minute when they're alone together at home. Zecora wouldn't give them that instruction without reason. Instead, Angel violated the doctor's orders and forced her to drink it outside in front of everyone.

2. Had Angel chosen to wait and not drink the potion right away, then they might've come to an understanding much sooner. Instead, Angel took advantage of his swapped body and caused further conflict, including making a foal afraid of her, neglecting FS's chores, and putting everycreature in danger.

3. Bunny!Fluttershy's meeting suggests that Zecora knew some of the language she was reciting, but didn't know the rabbit was Fluttershy with her body swapped at the time. Still doesn't excuse how dangerous it was for Zecora to allow "Angel" to hop through Everfree alone.

[Misty Shadow 7,084]

Well, I saw this coming. We finally get to see a sympathetic side to the devil, Angel Bunny. Honestly, I never found him to be that annoying, but I also never really cared about him. He’s grumpy and selfish all the time because he can’t talk and it’s hard to travel...sorry, just doesn’t hit me in the feels.  Probably why this episode doesn’t click with me too much, even if there is some gold to scavenge in it, like the way Angel first reacts upon being in Fluttershy’s body and says that Fluttershy wants to marry Discord. It’s also really amusing how they finally acknowledge how hard it would realistically be for Fluttershy to do all that work with those animals and still have time to be a teacher. Was not expecting that or that snake to actually eat that elephant that was at least twice its size. So much for, “I’m almost as big as her, how could she gobble me up?”. 

[CinnamonSwirl 90]

Aww I'm fluttershy I talk to animals. I want to marry discord yay fluttercord!!!

[ExplosionMare 18,007]

On 8/31/2019 at 7:05 AM, ChocolateSwirl said:

i haven't seen this episode. i dont have cable. anypony  know where i can watch it at?

Dailymotion has it

[CypherHoof 26,479]

20 minutes ago, ChocolateSwirl said:

Aww I'm fluttershy I talk to animals. I want to marry discord yay fluttercord!!!

Well Da Wabbit DOES know her quite well

[Cash In 21,516]

I really liked the concept behind this episode, even though it has been done many other times in different shows. Here, it was done well in a way that felt unique and very enjoyable. Fluttershy and Angel's relationship was certainly on thin ice at previous points in the series, but I suppose this was the tipping point. I liked that we could finally get a better glimpse behind Angel's thoughts and feelings. I do feel that the voice work paid off here, as Angel had his own tone when he was in Fluttershy's body - which really payed off in my eyes. I liked how the other animals were implemented into the episode, as it really added more plot opportunities and made things all the more interesting. I was happy with the role Zecora played here, though I feel that she was a bit too vague at some points - even for her standards. Overall, this is probably one of my favourite episodes from season 9, thus far.

[cmarston1 5,951]

I really liked this episode.  It was nice to get an episode focusing on Fluttershy and Angel's relationship, and I found it worked really well here.  I found this episode helped to make Fluttershy's animal sanctuary goal more interesting as while I didn't dislike Fluttershy Leans In, I don't think it was all that great either.  Seeing Zecora have an actual role in a episode was nice, and I liked how Angel got to be an actual sympathetic character for once.  I also feel that this episode did a great job at showing Fluttershy at her best, and over all I thought it was pretty enjoyable.

[Sparklefan1234 161,875]

I feel bad for the poor giraffe. 

[Sepul-Coloratura 756]

This is the kind of MLP episode when I think 'I want to watch MLP', or 'I like MLP'. I haven't gave an MLP episode 5/5 vote in a forum in a long time. The idea and the premise, how the story unfolded, the character depiction, audience's empathy, execution, direction, the tone and the ending, the balance were all great. It was a necessary episode. When Angel watches sick Fluttershy and makes that face (which helps because it's Fluttershy's face) the moment felt true and strong. This episode has a heart.

The episode was about character interactions and characters' changes and their relationship's changes. And it's kind of a unique story that only could be done with those set of characters. The amount of cartoonish fantasies felt right and perfect for MLP settings and they didn't do anything wrong or offensive big enough to disturb any genuine pleasure of the viewing. Most of all, the episode felt necessary and inspired, and it was all for making a good show. An episode about how Angel actually cares about Fluttershy was needed to justify his existence, and how Fluttershy's sanctuary worked was needed as well. This episode did those both aspects very well.

In all season 8 and 9, this episode might be the only one that I think it's truly great.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Sepul-Coloratura

[Thrond 3,257]

Angel is such a jerk, oh my god. I don't think this fully convinces me to sympathize with him - isn't it true that every animal is unable to talk to anyone except Fluttershy? - but this does a decent job of showing how profoundly lonely he must be, and how exhausting it must be for him to try keeping up with ponies. Fluttershy's ability to talk to animals has never really been explained, so I can't help but wish there was some way for others to be able to talk to animals - I'll take anything that makes this world seem a little more cheerful - but it works for this story. I also kind of wish that this had addressed Fluttershy's busy job a little more; I get the sense that her special abilities prevent her from getting the assistance she clearly needs, which is frankly kind of depressing, and the solution she and Angel come to here seems like it would make her even busier. Still, I found her situation even easier to sympathize with than Angel's, which kind of made me wish it took longer for Angel to understand her perspective. The fact that I can make such nitpicks really shows how this manages to add nuance to a cliched body swap storyline. More importantly, I'm always down to watch Fluttershy act like a jerk. It just never gets old to me, and Angel's specific flavour of awfulness is very different from "New Fluttershy" or the versions created by Discord and Chrysalis. I'm not sure the parts of this story are laid out very well, and every hint towards the show's broader vision annoyed me a lot*, but Fluttershy being mean kind of made up for everything, especially with the really solid character work for everyone here. I can't stay mad at you, My Little Pony. 

* Two particular throwaway lines stand out. The first was the one reference to the school early on, which just made me sad because it reminded me that Fluttershy has like three jobs between the sanctuary, the school, and saving Equestria from time to time. The other is Angel saying that Fluttershy wants to marry Discord, which I really hope is just him exaggerating, because I find that pairing kinda gross and the show has put no effort into building it up. But this is the same show which decided that Pinkie needs to find her purpose and Twilight needs to rule Equestria, so I'm worried that they really are going to just dump that on us at the last minute. 

Also, it's impressive that the show took this long to do a body swap episode, though they did have the cutie mark swap back in season 7. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by AlexanderThrond

[CinnamonSwirl 90]

2 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Angel is such a jerk, oh my god. I don't think this fully convinces me to sympathize with him - isn't it true that every animal is unable to talk to anyone except Fluttershy? - but this does a decent job of showing how profoundly lonely he must be, and how exhausting it must be for him to try keeping up with ponies. Fluttershy's ability to talk to animals has never really been explained, so I can't help but wish there was some way for others to be able to talk to animals - I'll take anything that makes this world seem a little more cheerful - but it works for this story. I also kind of wish that this had addressed Fluttershy's busy job a little more; I get the sense that her special abilities prevent her from getting the assistance she clearly needs, which is frankly kind of depressing, and the solution she and Angel come to here seems like it would make her even busier. Still, I found her situation even easier to sympathize with than Angel's, which kind of made me wish it took longer for Angel to understand her perspective. The fact that I can make such nitpicks really shows how this manages to add nuance to a cliched body swap storyline. More importantly, I'm always down to watch Fluttershy act like a jerk. It just never gets old to me, and Angel's specific flavour of awfulness is very different from "New Fluttershy" or the versions created by Discord and Chrysalis. I'm not sure the parts of this story are laid out very well, and every hint towards the show's broader vision annoyed me a lot*, but Fluttershy being mean kind of made up for everything, especially with the really solid character work for everyone here. I can't stay mad at you, My Little Pony. 

* Two particular throwaway lines stand out. The first was the one reference to the school early on, which just made me sad because it reminded me that Fluttershy has like three jobs between the sanctuary, the school, and saving Equestria from time to time. The other is Angel saying that Fluttershy wants to marry Discord, which I really hope is just him exaggerating, because I find that pairing kinda gross and the show has put no effort into building it up. But this is the same show which decided that Pinkie needs to find her purpose and Twilight needs to rule Equestria, so I'm worried that they really are going to just dump that on us at the last minute. 

Also, it's impressive that the show took this long to do a body swap episode, though they did have the cutie mark swap back in season 7. 

How is the pairing gross?

[Thrond 3,257]

1 hour ago, ChocolateSwirl said:

How is the pairing gross?

I just see the relationship they have and don’t see a healthy romance in it, mostly, because I still think of Discord as a jerk. Also the age difference irks me for some reason. 

Edited September 2, 2019 by AlexanderThrond

[CypherHoof 26,479]

23 minutes ago, ChocolateSwirl said:

Fluttershy's ability to talk to animals has never really been explained, so I can't help but wish there was some way for others to be able to talk to animals

It seems to be her special ability, and related to her cutie mark. But I am guessing Twi has a spell for that, or better yet, one that would allow a sentient animal to speak ponish.

5 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Also the age difference irks me for some reason. 

I have no idea how long the Mane 6 will live; I was hoping, given their relationship with the Tree, that they would live as long as the tree does (and that be true for both royal sisters, too). Discord may also take steps to ensure Fluttershy doesn't age and die, even if that isn't true for the other ponies.

But where I am going with that is that, if both Flutters and Discord should be effectively immortal, their relative ages probably don't matter so much.

[Thrond 3,257]

5 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

It seems to be her special ability, and related to her cutie mark. But I am guessing Twi has a spell for that, or better yet, one that would allow a sentient animal to speak ponish.

It would be cute if she used it to help Angel out. 

5 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

But where I am going with that is that, if both Flutters and Discord should be effectively immortal, their relative ages probably don't matter so much.

They’re both adults so it probably shouldn’t matter that much anyway, but I dunno, I don’t like it. 

Although, if they’re both immortal, that relationship will probably end eventually.

Edited September 1, 2019 by AlexanderThrond

[BornAgainBrony 2,395]

1 hour ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I just see the relationship they have and don’t see a healthy romance in it, mostly. because I still think of Discord as a jerk. Also the age difference irks me for some reason. 

Discord seems bound by certain "rules" of what he can or can't do. That's what I've been able to derive from his behavior anyhow. He's helpful to the extent that he can be without betraying his true nature. If he did that, who knows, he might suddenly be a paradox and cease to exist or something. IMO he's pushing those rules to the breaking point every time he intercedes.

Kinda like rules governing Toons in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit."

Eddie: You're telling me you could get your hand out of those cuffs whenever to wanted to?!

Roger: Not whenever I want to. I can only do it when it's funny.

It'll be interesting though to see if he has a role in the final showdown with Grogar. We may end up seeing a Discord that's far more ticked off than we've ever seen him before.

[KatonRyu 1,026]

This episode was the best one in a long time. Angel's lines are funny as hell and it was a blast seeing him running around in Fluttershy's body. Easily one of the most amusing episodes in the series. The only thing I could hold against this episode is Fluttershy's 'try to be vegetarian' speech to the predators. IRL a lot of pets die or get very sick because their owners try to make obligate carnivores vegetarian or vegan, and I really don't think it's smart to have Fluttershy, who really should know better, suggest something like this.

[Quinch 1,119]

On 8/31/2019 at 10:19 AM, ChB said:

I don’t like Fluttercord, but that one line from Angel Bunny was hilarious!   

For the life of me, I can't make out what he's saying.

[BornAgainBrony 2,395]

Alright, I figured I might as well address both of these now that I remembered it.

 

On 8/31/2019 at 12:41 PM, ShootingStar159 said:

But the difference between two princesses raising the son and moon or bird horses controlling weather, and giving animals a “vegan” diet, is that people actually try and do the latter. This is setting a horrible example for any audience watching, no matter how much you try and hand wave the problem away with the magical setting.

If an episode had a pro-antivax message, I don’t think anyone would be trying to explain it away with the setting. Veganism should always be a choice you make for yourself, it should never be something you force onto someone else, pet, child, anyone. As an aside, never, ever give an animal chocolate, it’s poison to just about any animal that isn’t a human.

Is that really a fair comparison? You could make a good argument if kids decide to try this on their pets as a result of watching the episode, but... comparing this to Veganism as a choice doesn't really work. First, it's abundantly clear that the animals in MLP have a much more complex social order than those in the wild on Earth. Anything Fluttershy says makes sense, she doesn't have to talk "down" to them or simplify her message to get it across. So all of those living within the sanctuary have formed what could be described as a society.

A real world comparison to this would be if human cannibals were trying to live with non-cannibals. Sooner or later the "no eating other people" question would obviously come up. Adding to that...

10 hours ago, KatonRyu said:

This episode was the best one in a long time. Angel's lines are funny as hell and it was a blast seeing him running around in Fluttershy's body. Easily one of the most amusing episodes in the series. The only thing I could hold against this episode is Fluttershy's 'try to be vegetarian' speech to the predators. IRL a lot of pets die or get very sick because their owners try to make obligate carnivores vegetarian or vegan, and I really don't think it's smart to have Fluttershy, who really should know better, suggest something like this.

As if the Ponies weren't enough of an indication, animal anatomy is obviously not what it is on Earth. From the very beginning, we've seen horses eating things that you would never feed to a horse. Then we have a snake who chews the cookie before swallowing it (our snakes can't do that). The implication here is that eating habits are much more cultural rather than natural.

The opening lines are even a perfect reflection of how these kind of debates happen in society. Antoine says what he eats is nobody else's business, a very classic reaction when such social issues usually come up. "I don't dictate to you what you can eat, so don't do it to me." Then comes the rebuttal. The prey doesn't want to be eaten. Also, a classic response to such debates. "Your right to do whatever you want comes to an end the moment it violates the rights of others."

[ChB 18,532]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I didn't like this episode very much. I expected better from Fluttershy than the way she treated Angel Bunny, and the whole "I'm too busy for you" excuse has been overdone at this point of the series. Sure, she had a lot on her shoulders, but there are plenty of ways she could have gotten her point across without acting annoyingly rude to him. I get that the purpose of the episode is to teach a life lesson, and I am aware that the series has a tendency to exaggerate flaws to make the theme easier to understand (which is not necessarily a bad thing)...but still, I felt like this was something Fluttershy should have learned a long time ago and grown to be above by now.

Maybe it wouldn't feel as bad if it didn't occur so late in the series. I do hope that it's not the last Fluttershy-focused episode of the series, because if it is, then it's (at least for me) not a satisfying way to wrap up her character development.